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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:12:18 -0400
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Totally agreed Ed,
For your information my EAA chapter had a rep from Lycon, a top Lyc=20
engine builder on the west coast visit. He said that they had been=20
having some trouble with their "hopped up" Lycs. They surveyed avgas=20
locally (from San Jose to LA) and they said they were seeing WIDELY=20
varied formulations. The fuel was OK octane wise but the amounts of TEL=20
(lead) and other fuel additives were all over the map. He said that=20
auto fuel was far more consistent! In fact they will void your warranty=20
if you run LOP because they couldn't predict the results. This=20
evaluation would be consistent with wide variance in TBS. (time before=20
sag) Being totally honest I do not believe we will ever eliminate this=20
totally while running leaded fuels. 100LL has a rather higher lead=20
content than any auto fuel did. The problem is that the plugs tend to=20
have "tracking" rather than fouling. Lead deposits on the insulator=20
cause a lower resistance track or path to form on the surface of the=20
insulator. We saw this a lot on 2 strokes. The thing is the coil IS=20
firing the charge is moving along the path, there is no malfunction of=20
the coil. The tracked charge just doesn't ignite the fuel air charge=20
because the spark doesn't jump the gap. There have been loads of=20
research on ways to stop the problem. There are 2 ways that worked back=20
then, (mid-late 70s), high compression and unleaded fuel. I don't=20
understand the chemistry changes caused by high compression, and it=20
really isn't available to us anyway. Auto fuel provides us with the=20
best alternative. If you run 100LL buy your plugs in bulk and change=20
often.
Bill Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 9:10 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning


Actually, that is what I do, Bill. In fact, you probably missed my e=20
mail which showed I could fly (changing plugs ever 25 hours) for over=20
300 hours before I approached the cost of the coils of the Blaster LS1=20
system.=A0
=A0
But, on the other hand, my experience has been the SAG interval may=20
vary from as little as 12 hours to as many as 30 hours. The fact that=20
SAG tend to happen mostly in high power regimes of flight (like in take=20
off) can cause a bit of consternation in some situations. Having had it=20
happened on both rotors during take off it reduced my ROC to 500 fpm.=20
Not really dangerous - unless you are facing a hill or obstruction- but=20
not really pleasant either.=A0
=A0
Also, the SAG can be mistaken for other difficulties - I spent weeks=20
thinking I had an injector problem when I first encountered it.=A0
=A0
So while (after 10 years of doing so), I can attest that changing plugs=20
is certainly a viable alternative (given the relative cheapness of auto=20
spark plugs), it would be nice just to be able to eliminate SAG all=20
together.=A0
=A0
Just my personal opinion, of course.=A0
=A0
Ed=A0
=A0
----- Original Message ----- From: <wrjjrs@aol.com>=A0
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=A0
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 10:36 AM=A0
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning=A0
=A0
=A0
There is all this discussion about other ignitions and other methods to=A0
keep the plugs fresh. Would I be out of line if I just suggested that=A0
we change them more often? You can change a lot of standard plugs for=A0
the price of most ignition upgrades. I would also like to mention that=A0
Kawasaki did a check on various types of plug cleaning. Their=A0
conclusion was that there was no economical way to clean plugs that=A0
worked. They did some chemical cleans that worked, but cost more=A0
overall than new plugs! My guess is that modern eco activism being what=A0
it is in California I probably couldn't buy the stuff anyway.=A0
Bill Jepson=A0
=A0
-----Original Message-----=A0
From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>=A0
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=A0
Sent: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 6:37 am=A0
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning=A0
=A0
Michael LaFleur wrote:=A0
> Sure. How much do you spend building an airplane? $400 is what, 1/2%=20
or > so?=A0
You guys and your fancy kit airplanes...=A0
$400 is more like 2% for some of us.=A0
=A0
> An extra $400 is keeping you from having a reliable ignition system.=A0
$400 or a proper maintenance schedule will net the same reliability.=A0
>=A0
> Put off buying those ANR headsets and rid yourself the risk of SAG >=A0
during climbout or a go-round. We're talking real pucker factor here.=A0
>=A0
> Mike LaFleur=A0
=A0
I wouldn't pay $400 for headsets, either; but, that isn't the point.=A0
The point is that $400 IS a lot of money, and that is a separate=A0
question that whether it is justified or not.=A0
Planes get expensive in the same way they get heavy...one pound at a=A0
time...which would be such a profound statement if we were British.=A0
System after expensive system is piled on, justified in each case by an=A0
obscure what-happens-if scenario. Meanwhile, where we started gives us=A0
more performance than the typical 152 most of us did our primary=A0
training in. I believe I've read that the training fleet is one of the=A0
safest components of the GA fleet. IMNSHO, over the lifetime of the=A0
coils, the $400 would be better spend on an extra couple hours of=A0
recurrency training with a good instructor.=A0
=A0
-- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=A0
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