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Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:37:54 -0600
From: Bob White <rlwhite@comcast.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
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Hi Bob,

I've been sort of worried about that.  Do you recollect how much time
you got on a set of plugs with MSD and was this with leaded gas?  It
seems possible that it would at least delay SAG for a while.

Bob W.


On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:56:38 -0400
bmears9413@aol.com wrote:

> SAG can appear any where apparently. We ran a MSD system on our race care=
 and still ran into the problem. The problem ended when we switched to alco=
hol, but thats not a fix for airplanes!
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> Bob Mears
> Supermarine spitfire
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael LaFleur <mike.lafleur@sbcglobal.net>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:58 am
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
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> Maybe LS1 coils will do the trick. There are people out there flying with=
 those, tight?
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> Has anyone had SAG with LS1 coils?
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> Mike LaFleur
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> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:12:48 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
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> Hi Mike,
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> =A0
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> Considering total investment, I agree $400 - for a reliable ignition syst=
em is not out of line.=A0 Besides the stock Mazda ignition must weigh close=
 to 10 lbs total =A0for trailing and leading modules - so save some weight =
besides.=A0=20
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> =A0
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> While I am unaware of anybody suffering a mishap from SAG - as Lynn point=
s out reducing power, reduces compression chamber pressure, reduces misfire=
 - but, it can certainly be disconcerting - and perhaps lead you to incorre=
ct conclusions about what is wrong.=A0 I know I spent hours when first enco=
untering SAG wondering what was wrong with my injectors - of course, it was=
n't the injectors it was the plugs.
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> =A0
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> =A0
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> Guess, I'm going to have to break down and install the LS1 components I h=
ave in the workshop.=A0 Don't know if the LS1 coils will provide any better=
 anti-fouling spark than stock but at least then I could plug in the LS1 Bl=
aster coils.
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> =A0
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> Ed
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> ----- Original Message -----=20
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> From: Michael LaFleur=20
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> To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
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> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:15 PM
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> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
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> I wouldn't consider NOT having a high energy ignition system over changin=
g plugs. I'm sure that SAG is result from the combination of the coil and p=
lugs used.
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> It's cheap insurance. Why risk it?
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> Mike LaFleur
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> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2007 8:09:38 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
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> Hi Bobby, based on what Lynn has said and my understanding of what is hap=
pening with lead fouling, I agree.=A0 However, while they produce 3 times t=
he energy they also cost about 3 times as much as a stock LS1 coil - these =
Blaster coils=A0cost $98.56 each.=A0 Which would bring 4 to around $400.00.
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> =A0
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> Spark plugs cost around $7.00 x4 =3D $28 for a set $400/28 =3D 14 changes=
 of plugs X 25 (avg hours) =3D 357 hours of flying with current system befo=
re cost of plugs =3D cost of Blaster LS1 coils {:>)
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> =A0
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> However, if I were just now starting out with a rotary conversion, I woul=
d certainly consider it.=A0 I do have a complete installation of regular LS=
1 coils and=A0connectors sitting in my workshop.=A0 Just need to get them i=
nstalled and the EC2 converted=A0- I'll have to check, but I presume these =
LS1 coils are a plug-plug replacement, which would mean they would be easy =
to exchange for the stock LS1 coils.
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> =A0
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> Now that I think further about it, the piece of mind from not encounterin=
g SAG might well be worth the price alone!=A0 Good suggestion!
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> =A0
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> Ed
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> ----- Original Message -----=20
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> From: Bobby J. Hughes=20
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> To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
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> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:19 PM
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> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
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> Ed,
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> =A0
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> I wish you would test 4 of these. :)=A0If Lynn is correct about high powe=
r spark then these might be=A0the ultimate solution. Looks like 3 time the =
energy of our standard LS1 coils.=20
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> http://www.msdignition.com/coil_blaster_19_8245.htm
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> =A0
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> Bobby
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> =A0
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> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On B=
ehalf Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:07 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
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> Here is somebody who pretty much sums up what my research has turned up o=
n Lead solvents - the only one I found was nitric acid - which I will pass =
on {:>)
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> .
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> =A0
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> There really is no lead solvent. Any chemical that will desolve lead will=
 likely disolve YOU. Years ago, before people knew better, shooters used me=
rcury. This amalgamated with the lead, and the material could be brushed ou=
t. The only problem: mercurey will make you crazy, then dead!!
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> A good non dangerous to you, and non damaging to the bore cleaner is the =
Lewis or Hopies lead remover kit. You can also buy a "lead remover cloth" a=
t most gun shops. Cut this into patches and run them down the bore.
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> =A0
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> =A0
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> Ed
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> =A0
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> ----- Original Message -----=20
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> From: Jeff Owen=20
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> To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
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> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:47 PM
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> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
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> Ed,
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> There is an electro-chemical process shooters use to remove lead from a g=
un barrel which might work if this is an elemental lead deposit.=A0 Take a =
look at: http://www.outers-guncare.com/products/chemicals/foul_out_system.a=
spx=A0
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> =A0
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> Jeff Owen
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On B=
ehalf Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:11 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Spark Plug Cleaning
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> Getting around to see what can be done about the lead fouling sparkplugs=
=A0 causing the infamous "SAG".=A0 1st experiment was to place the used spa=
rk plugs in a 30% solution of Hydrogen Peroxide.=A0 I did that and place th=
e plugs and solution in an ultrasonic cleaner, turned it on and left it on =
for 1 hour.
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> =A0
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> It appeared to clean everything off the plug - but, the lead.=A0 So far t=
he only chemical my research has indicated would dissolved metallic lead is=
 Nitric Acid.=A0 Nope, not going to try that, I'll stick with buying new pl=
ugs.
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> =A0
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> But, thought I would let folks know of the results.=A0 I was really hopin=
g the ultrasonic vibration would shake the lead crystals off the ceramic co=
ne of the plug - but either the idea is flawed or the small jewelry cleanin=
g size ultrasonic generator is simply not powerful enough.
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> =A0
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> Ed
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> =A0
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> =A0
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> Ed Anderson
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free f=
rom AOL at AOL.com.
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--=20
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/