X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.9) with ESMTP id 2094734 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:39:21 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.157.35; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id q.c4d.16b76b83 (48576) for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:38:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:38:09 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil temp limit To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1181482689" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5366 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1181482689 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/10/2007 7:31:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, msteitle@gmail.com writes: Lynn, Thanks for setting my mind at ease. My concern was too high of oil pressure. The EM-2 normally flashes "99" for the oil pressure when I first start. Shortly thereafter, it will drop into the mid 90's. After its warmed up, and at less than 3000rpm, it will be in the mid 80's. Rev it a bit and it comes right back up into the mid to upper 90's. And yes, It had fresh bearings 20 hrs ago. This is a factory 20B. So, from what you're saying, if my cooler and hoses are up to it then I have nothing to worry about. Mark S. The first weak point is usually the oil filter canister. If you use the stock filter mount and filter (screw on can) that is fine. If you operate in cold weather, they have a 14 pound bypass that might allow trapped crap to go back to the bearings with a high RPM cold start. The other problem is that they install upside down on the Mazda mount with the debris laying around the mount plate just waiting for the bypass to open. Note to users. There is no such thing as a bypass valve. If the value of delta P (pressure drop across the element) gets above a certain number, the whole element is pushed off of the mounting end plate, and oil goes into the outside holes and right back out the center hole BYPASSING the element completely. A thinking person would mount the filter right side up so debris will settle in the bottom of the can, and if the element goes into bypass the crap has a chance to stay in the filter and not dive back into the bearings. On your Mazda car or airplane. Take a real sharp punch, and punch a hole in the bottom center of the filter can (the upper end in the car. Come back in an hour and most of the oil will have drained into the engine through the bearings and you can wrap a rag around the base and remove the element with little mess. If you fear that this could allow paint or metal could be dropped into the system, practice a bit and you can wrap the base loosely with a rag, and undo the element and give it one heck of a spin and as the element hops off the mount and turn it right side up, and little oil will spill. The sad thing is that you cannot fill the new element with oil before screwing it back on. So on start-up your engine gets the oil blown off the bearings by a dose of air. I have seen people who appear to be thinking logical normal looking in every way, screw Fram filters on to perfectly good airplanes. After several run ins with law enforcement, I no longer grab owners and shake them to get their attention. If you like Fram filters, fine, put them on all of your cars and trucks. Never on an airplane or any equipment you really have to trust. Fram sells two filter elements that Racing Beat says will hold up well enough to use on a race car. The HP2 and the HP6. Same threads but the HP2 has no bypass and the HP6 does. You have to really want to use these filters. These filter fit most aftermarket remote mounts.Use one HP6 or two HP2s in parallel. If you have a remote mount and the space, screw on a Wicks 51515. Or a K&N HP3001. If I remember correctly the Wicks has a 300 PSI burst can and the K&N has a 500 PSI burst. That burst term is misleading. Unrolls the crimp at the mounting plate and leaves like a rocket is a better term, but longer. An oil fire at close range is a life altering experience. And can be worse than that in an airplane. I blew one Fram PH8A can off of a remote mount on my Fiat race car while I was looking at it. I had a fire bottle nearby and saw the can leave oiling down the headers. Could have lost the race car and the shop. While working for the Government as an equipment specialist, a filter salesman stopped by and gifted me a sales display. It was a Wix 51515 (a division of Dana corp in Toledo Ohio). And a Fram PH8A. Both cans were cut off of the mount plate so the internals could be inspected. The Fram is so incredibly cheap as to be insulting. Paper end caps. 105 square inches of media, the relief spring is a flat sheet metal strip thin base cap rough cut threads. and so on. The wix had a real spring with closed end coils. Formed metal end caps. 416 square inches of media. Molded anti drainback valve and a can you could not flex with one hand. The Fram took great car just to prevent denting it. A piece of crap from end to end. My K&Ns are mounted right behind the left front wheel and take hard rock hits in every race. Never a problem. Wix and Champion make 90% of all aftermarket elements, and are high quality American manufacturers. I wouldn't screw a Fram filter on a target drone. Lynn E. Hanover ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1181482689 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 6/10/2007 7:31:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 msteitle@gmail.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
Lynn,
 
Thanks for setting my mind at ease.  My concern was too high of=20= oil=20 pressure.  The EM-2 normally flashes "99" for the oil pressure when I= =20 first start.  Shortly thereafter, it will drop into the mid 90's.&nbs= p;=20 After its warmed up, and at less than 3000rpm, it will be in the mid=20 80's.  Rev it a bit and it comes right back up into the mid to upper=20 90's.  And yes, It had fresh bearings 20 hrs ago.  This is a fac= tory=20 20B.  So, from what you're saying, if my cooler and hoses are up to i= t=20 then I have nothing to worry about. 
 
Mark S.
The first weak point is usually the oil filter canister. If you use the= =20 stock filter mount and filter
(screw on can) that is fine. If you operate in cold weather, they have=20= a 14=20 pound bypass that might allow trapped crap to go back to the bearings with a= =20 high RPM cold start. The other problem is that they install upside down on t= he=20 Mazda mount with the debris laying around the mount plate just waiting for t= he=20 bypass to open.
 
Note to users. There is no such thing as a bypass valve. If the value o= f=20 delta P (pressure drop across the element) gets above a certain number, the=20 whole element is pushed off of the mounting end plate, and oil goes into the= =20 outside holes and right back out the center hole BYPASSING the element=20 completely.
 
A thinking person would mount the filter right side up so debris will=20 settle in the bottom of the can, and if the element goes into bypass the cra= p=20 has a chance to stay in the filter and not dive back into the bearings. On y= our=20 Mazda car or airplane. Take a real sharp punch, and punch a hole in the bott= om=20 center of the filter can (the upper end in the car. Come back in an hour=20 and most of the oil will have drained into the engine through the beari= ngs=20 and you can wrap a rag around the base and remove the element with little me= ss.=20 If you fear that this could allow paint or metal could be dropped into the=20 system, practice a bit and you can wrap the base loosely with a rag, and und= o=20 the element and give it one heck of a spin and as the element hops off the m= ount=20 and turn it right side up, and little oil will spill. The sad thing is=20= that=20 you cannot fill the new element with oil before screwing it back on. So on=20 start-up your engine gets the oil blown off the bearings by a dose of air.
 
I have seen people who appear to be thinking logical normal looking in=20 every way, screw Fram filters on to perfectly good airplanes. After several=20= run=20 ins with law enforcement, I no longer grab owners and shake them to get thei= r=20 attention. If you like Fram filters, fine, put them on all of your cars and=20 trucks. Never on an airplane or any equipment you really have to trust. Fram= =20 sells two filter elements that Racing Beat says will hold up well enough to=20= use=20 on a race car. The HP2 and the HP6. Same threads but the HP2 has no byp= ass=20 and the HP6 does. You have to really want to use these filters. These filter= fit=20 most aftermarket remote mounts.Use one HP6 or two HP2s in parallel.
 
If you have a remote mount and the space, screw on a Wicks 51515. Or a=20 K&N HP3001.
 
If I remember correctly the Wicks has a 300 PSI burst can and the K&= ;N=20 has a 500 PSI burst. That burst term is misleading. Unrolls the crimp at the= =20 mounting plate and leaves like a rocket is a better term, but longer. An oil= =20 fire at close range is a life altering experience. And can be worse than tha= t in=20 an airplane. I blew one Fram PH8A can off of a remote mount on my Fiat race=20= car=20 while I was looking at it. I had a fire bottle nearby and saw the can=20 leave
oiling down the headers. Could have lost the race car and the shop.
 
While working for the Government as an equipment specialist, a filter=20 salesman stopped by and gifted me a sales display. It was a Wix 51515 (a=20 division of Dana corp in Toledo Ohio). And a Fram PH8A. Both cans were cut o= ff=20 of the mount plate so the internals could be inspected.  The Fram is so= =20 incredibly cheap as to be insulting. Paper end caps. 105 square inches of me= dia,=20 the relief spring is a flat sheet metal strip thin base cap rough cut=20 threads.
and so on. The wix had a real spring with closed end coils. Formed meta= l=20 end caps. 416 square inches of media. Molded anti drainback valve and a can=20= you=20 could not flex with one hand. The Fram took great car just to prevent dentin= g=20 it. A piece of crap from end to end.
 
My K&Ns are mounted right behind the left front wheel and take hard= =20 rock hits in every race. Never a problem.
 
Wix and Champion make 90% of all aftermarket elements, and are hig= h=20 quality American manufacturers.
 
I wouldn't screw a Fram filter on a target drone.
 
Lynn E. Hanover  



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