X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net ([216.148.227.154] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.9) with ESMTP id 2080371 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 02 Jun 2007 10:52:52 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.148.227.154; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from wschertzpc (c-24-7-194-231.hsd1.il.comcast.net[24.7.194.231]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070602145213m1400fmuqse>; Sat, 2 Jun 2007 14:52:13 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop loads on engine Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 09:52:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A4FB.B158EC90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A4FB.B158EC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Ed, I'll try that diagnosis Bill ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop loads on engine Bill, base on my experience and your rpm there is no doubt you need = the larger prop as you clearly recognize.=20 Here is something you may want to check. When my Coldstart function = got turned on (without a switch being moved - long story) without me = knowing it at the time - my engine would bearly run with the manual = mixture control turned full lean with both primary and secondary on. = When I turned off the primary injectors it ran fine on the secondary = only because, of course, there was 1/2 the fuel flow of the four = injectors. Your symptoms sound very much like mine. One of my rotor = EGTs would also nose dive. Why just one, I am uncertain - you would = think both.=20 The only thing I can think for you to check is to put a voltohm meter = between the pin to the cold start switch on the control panel Pin 13 = (probably could put it on the output pin of the EC2 pin 30 if that's = easier) and ground. With both injector switches ON there should be no = ground at that pin it should show open on your voltohm meter (or a high = resistance). When you throw either injector switch off then that pin = should show a connection to ground. If it shows a ground when the = injector switches are OFF that could be your problem. Actually, since I = don't know the internal wiring of the EC2 this is just a SWAG on my = part. But, clearly if the cold start which functions when that pin is = grounded - shows a ground with both switches ON then I would bet = something is probably not right. The other alternative is that one injector in the primary set is = sticking open intermittently at lower rpm? =20 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Schertz=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:27 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Prop loads on engine I have made my third test run trying to sort things out. I concur on = the need for a load on the engine. I have borrowed a Sensenich (sp?) = prop for the test runs, since my Catto prop has not arrived yet. It is = 76x60, and must be severely under propped (76x88 on order). I started the engine, throttle all the way back, then one turn = forward. Engine RPM on EM-2 ~ 2800. Engine was running rich, max number = of bars on mixture indicator. Tried leaning knob adjustment and it = helped some. Engine seemed to bog some so gave it one more turn = forward, then started playing with injector switches. Turning off the = primaries, engine smoothed out, and RPM shot up to almost 7000, this is = with very little throttle opening! Mixture went lean, and leaning knob = had significant effect. RPM would climb rapidly when I richened the = mixture. I cannot get anywhere close to the 22" manifold pressure for = some of the adjustments called for in the EC-2 manual. Will have to wait = for the more aggressive prop. You can see that Rotor 1 is bogging down until I shifted to = Secondaries only on the EGT plots. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A4FB.B158EC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Ed, I'll try that = diagnosis
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 = 7:58=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop = loads on=20 engine

Bill, base on my experience and your rpm there = is no=20 doubt you need the larger prop as you clearly = recognize. 
 
 Here is something you may want to = check. =20 When my Coldstart function got turned on (without a switch being moved = - long=20 story) without me knowing it at the time -  my engine would = bearly run=20 with the manual mixture control turned full lean with both primary and = secondary on.  When I turned off  the primary injectors it = ran fine=20 on the secondary only because, of course, there was 1/2 the fuel flow = of the=20 four injectors.  Your symptoms sound very much like=20 mine.   One of my rotor EGTs would also nose = dive.  Why=20 just one, I am uncertain - you would think both. 
 
 The only thing I can think for you to = check is to=20 put a voltohm meter between the pin to the cold start switch on the = control=20 panel Pin 13 (probably could put it on the output pin of the = EC2 pin=20 30 if that's easier) and ground.   With both injector = switches ON=20 there should be no ground at that pin it should show open on your = voltohm=20 meter (or a high resistance).  When you throw either injector = switch off=20 then that pin should  show a connection to ground.  If = it shows=20 a ground when the injector switches are OFF that could be your = problem. =20 Actually, since I don't know the internal wiring of the EC2 this is = just a=20 SWAG on my part.  But, clearly if the cold start which functions = when=20 that pin is grounded - shows a ground with both switches ON then I = would bet=20 something is probably not right.
 
The other alternative is that one injector in = the=20 primary set is sticking open intermittently at lower rpm?  =
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Schertz
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 = 8:27=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Prop = loads on=20 engine

I have made my third test run = trying to sort=20 things out. I concur on the need for a load on the engine.  I = have=20 borrowed a Sensenich (sp?) prop for the test runs, since my Catto = prop has=20 not arrived yet. It is 76x60, and must be severely under propped = (76x88 on=20 order).
 
I started the engine, throttle all = the way=20 back, then one turn forward. Engine RPM on EM-2 ~ 2800. Engine was = running=20 rich, max number of bars on mixture indicator. Tried leaning knob = adjustment=20 and it helped some.  Engine seemed to bog some so gave it one = more turn=20 forward, then started playing with injector switches. Turning off = the=20 primaries, engine smoothed out, and RPM shot up to almost 7000, this = is with=20 very little throttle opening! Mixture went lean, and leaning knob = had=20 significant effect. RPM would climb rapidly when I richened the = mixture. I=20 cannot get anywhere close to the 22" manifold pressure for some of = the=20 adjustments called for in the EC-2 manual. Will have to wait for the = more=20 aggressive prop.
 
You can see that Rotor 1 is bogging = down until=20 I shifted to Secondaries only on the EGT plots.
 
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