Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #37578
From: Christopher Barber <CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Injector disable swtich orientation was [FlyRotary] Re: It is ALIVE!!! First Start in Houston
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 21:02:15 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Yes, that is exactly correct.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:19 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Injector disable swtich orientation was [FlyRotary] Re: It is ALIVE!!! First Start in Houston

Mike, I believe the "problem" was in the orientation of the injector disable switches in the panel.
 
 Normally, as you know, the convention for switches  is "UP" is ON and "DOWN" is OFF.  However, in reading the schematic for wiring the switches, they were (in this case) installed so that "UP" was OFF and "DOWN" was ON (just backwards). 
 
So with the switches in the UP position (believing that turned the power on to them) the engine would not start because in reality the injectors were actually turned off.  So a very simple solution (once the problem was recognized)  was to flip the switches DOWN (which in this case turned the power on). 
 
 The permanent solution is to rotate the switches to the conventional orientation where UP is truly ON.
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:21 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: It is ALIVE!!! First Start in Houston

What was the root cause of your problem? I'm thinking there's something seriously wrong when you have to disable a set of injectors to get back running again.

What was the long term fix to make sure this didn't happen again?

That's the great thing about a forum such as this is that we can all learn from each others incidents and make all our planes safer.

Mike LaFleur

----- Original Message ----
From: Bob White <rlwhite@comcast.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 12:05:56 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: It is ALIVE!!! First Start in Houston

Hi Mike,

On the rotary engine, it's extremely valuable.  I was happily flying
along at 8500 ft. 10 miles from the airport when the engine suddenly
lost power (Ground level here is about 6000 ft.)  I wasn't getting
enough power to maintain altitude.  First I switched to the B
controller, no help. While looking at which field I wanted to land in,
I started looking for more things to try.  The next step I took was to
disable the primary injectors.  The engine took off again and I
continued the flight to land at the airport.  The injector disable
switch saved me from an off airport landing.

Bob W.  (It wasn't a great landing!)



On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:35:43 -0700 (PDT)
Michael LaFleur <mike.lafleur@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Is there a reason you need an injector disable switch?
>
> Just looks like another failure point and an increase in risk.
>
> Mike LaFleur
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:19:39 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: It is ALIVE!!! First Start in Houston
>
> Dave,
>
>  
>
> Congradulations on first start!!!  It is a real rush to hear your baby breathe its first breath.  
>
>  
>
> As for the "Disable" switches, Tracy and I had a discussion on this issue just a few weeks back.  He assured me that I wasn't the only one confused by the logic of the disable switches.  He now recommends that UP be ON (normal operation), and DOWN be DISABLE.  My little pea brain understands that.
>
>
>  
>
> Glad you figured it out so quickly.  
>
>  
>
> Mark S.  
>
>  
>
> On 5/30/07, David Staten <Dastaten@earthlink.net> wrote:
> We are prolly gonna go with UP for ON and DOWN for OFF. That seems to be
> the simplest for us southerners :)
>
>
> Yea.. it was the injector power switches.
>
> Dave
>
> Bob White wrote:
>
> >Congratulations Dave and Chris.  Brings back memories of my first
> >engine start.  Are the switches you had to turn over the injector
>
> >disable switches?  If that was my diagram, up is for _disable_ and down
> >is for run!  As long as they work the way you want that's the way to
> >wire them. :)
> >
> >Bob W.
> >
> >
>
> >On Wed, 30 May 2007 22:10:06 -0500
> >"Christopher Barber" <CBarber@TexasAttorney.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Oh, and for those playing along, we did install the check valve properly <g>.  So far only a minor oil leak from a plug in the engine Dave thinks he may have just snugged in by hand and forgot to tell me to get back to and a small coolent leak on a temporay hose connection.  Really, really small in both cases....almost non issues.  FWIW.
>
> >>
> >>Thanks again for y'all's support and well wishes.
> >>
> >>All the best,
> >>
> >>Chris
> >>Houston, Texas
> >>Ellington Field (EFD)
> >>
>
> >>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>  From: Christopher Barber
> >>  To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> >>  Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:54 PM
> >>  Subject: [FlyRotary] It is ALIVE!!! First Start in Houston
>
> >>
> >>
> >>  It actually started.  We turned it off and it started again.  WAHOOOOO.  But a mear wahoooo doesn't quite express the amazing feeling and sense of accomplisment of first engine start of the 2nd gen, turbo housing 13b.
>
> >>
> >>  David and I rebuilt it about 1.5 years ago.  Dave did most the teardown, cleaning, measureing tolerance etc and we both rebuilt it following along Bruce T's video and the Haynes shop manual.  Dave final install on the CC engine mount and Tracy's PSRU.  I ran the wires, hoses...and the rest.  A true joint effort.
>
> >>
> >>  We tried last night to no avail.  Turns out when I wired the injector switches based on a great diagram from the Flyrotary list, the illustration stated "top" and I installed that end up with the swithes being up when on.  However, when I was checking my wires this pm I noticed that power was coming through the switch when the switch was down.....doh!  So, I turned them over and rechecked the rest of my wires and grounds.
>
> >>
> >>  In a damn optomistic gesture while in a pessimistic mood, my hangar mate, Richard Sessions (who is restoring a VariEZ) and my S/O, Jana and I pushed the tale of the Velocity out the hangar door (of course it started sprinkling <g>) (Dave was still at work).  We took basic security procedures, ie showing Jana how to use the fire estingusher.  I turned on the switches (including the now correclty mounted injector switches), turned on the primary fuel pump, hit the starter button and DAMN, it fired.........SCARED THE HELL out of us.......you should have seen my two Cairn Terriers (Winston and Madison) head for the hills (well, Houston has no hills, but y'all get the idea).  We kinda looked at each other in a mixed shock and amazement and checke that we didn't blow anything off.  We actually mixed fuel, air, compression and spark and got combustion.....who'ed of thunk it?
>
> >>
> >>  We waited for the portable battery charger/starter to bring the battery back up and tried again. Switches up, Pumps on, press the starter button......damn, it  sputtered and started (after some cranking).  It started to rev really fast, or seeminly so, so I brought the throttle to closed, which didn't stop it, so I cut the fuel pump and it stopped. Go figure.
>
> >>
> >>  Well, we did this a few more times, never running it too long since we do not yet have sensors on it yet. Also, Dave got off work and came by to join the fun.  Just the fact it actually ran was great.  Now that Tracy should be getting back into town, we should be able to order the correct sensors to replace the ones that were missplaced along the way.
>
> >>
> >>  Not quite sure what to work on now.  Obviously we will want to smooth it out and get it to start easily.  It is currently running better on B than A.  I may have inavertanly changed someting on A while messing with it during start sessions (may need to reset A...donno yet).  I think I will now try to start to clean up the wiring so as to make it easier to manipulate the stuff in the cabin.  Righ now the panel is laying where the front seats should be.  So this may be a good starting point while waiting for sensors that will let me know I am not ruining my new engine.
>
> >>
> >>  Y'all's support and words of wisdom, along with Tracy Crooks great products it what helped make this a reality.  Thanks for being there.   NOW THE REAL WORK (read that as fun) BEGINS.
>
> >>
> >>  Dave will be posting a much more technical account soon....heck, I bet we both rushed home so we could annouce it to the world.
> >>
> >>  Thanks.
> >>
> >>  All the best,
>
> >>
> >>  Chris
> >>  Velocity N17010
> >>  w/ a Rotary 13b...that actually runs.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
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