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X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.66] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.9) with ESMTP id 2075042 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:52:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.66; envelope-from=CBarber@TexasAttorney.net Received: from [24.238.254.112] (helo=BLF) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HtRP8-0000SR-Ll for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:52:11 -0400 From: "Christopher Barber" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: First Start... Well... Not Quite.. Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:52:33 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A2A8.A0CAF710" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 04a7e290e6af3b12d3631fa4f7b525ef239a348a220c26098e9e7b5c1e9e2e448e98646dfb19302b667c3043c0873f7e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.238.254.112 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A2A8.A0CAF710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MessageThe way the fuel rail is set up it is certainly part of the fuel flow return (I have posted pictures on www.canardaviation.com of the fuel rail for the Mistral). I agree that I can't imagine that it would prevent start. We are not sure if my EC2 has the troubleshooting mods or not. We should get more insight when we can play with it a bit more. Sure hope so....but my unit has been sitting on the shelf for a while. I can;'t remember when I actually got it. We did send it back for the "choke" circuit replacment. Donno if anything else was modified on this tri back to FL. Of course Murphy is playing his role in that after having my ECU, EM and PSRU for a while, this is the first time I have needed to have Tracy around. DOH! Actually, hopefully we are not to this stage yet, however, since all the sensors included with the ECU/EM have been misplaced, it would have been nice to be able to order more. My timing can suck . All the best, Chris Christopher Barber Attorney and Counselor at Law 5110 Bissonnet, No 418 Bellaire, Texas 77401 Serving the Needs of Senior Texans 281-464-LAWS (5297) 281-754-4168 Fax www.TexasAttorney.net -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:35 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Start... Well... Not Quite.. Chris, A pin hole at that point might be meant to let any vapor escape and route back to the return line rather than the main fuel return. A pin hole will certainly not flow back very much liquid fuel. At idle most of the fuel would normally be returned, at WOT much less of the fuel will be returned. However, this should not stopped the engine from firing. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Start... Well... Not Quite.. I was wondering about the fuel return too, not as to why we are not getting a start, but more in general since the Mistral intake has a pin hole at the end of the fuel rail as it enters the return hose. The return line is the same size as the inlet lines.....fitted for a AN 6 connection (can't think what makes the hose) Chris Christopher Barber Attorney and Counselor at Law 5110 Bissonnet, No 418 Bellaire, Texas 77401 Serving the Needs of Senior Texans 281-464-LAWS (5297) 281-754-4168 Fax www.TexasAttorney.net -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Russell Duffy Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:47 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Start... Well... Not Quite.. Have you tried the injector simulation test to see if the injectors are working? How long has this feature been in the EC-2? I was thinking this was a new addition, so most people still wouldn't have it??? I've sure never known about it until recently, and I made a note to try mine to see if this works. I would vote for fuel as well, though I'd also recheck the CAS as Ed mentioned. If you did that much cranking, some with cold start on, you'd have to smell fuel in the exhaust if your injectors were working. As for fuel pressure, what size is your fuel return line to the tanks? Most people get a couple psi increase with the second pump. To get as much as you have, I'm thinking the fuel return can't flow enough to return the volume from both pumps at once. This isn't necessarily something that has to be fixed though. Good luck, Rusty ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A2A8.A0CAF710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

The=20 way the fuel rail is set up it is certainly part of the fuel flow return = (I have=20 posted pictures on www.canardaviation.com of the = fuel rail=20 for the Mistral). I agree that I can't imagine that it would = prevent=20 start.

We are=20 not sure if my EC2 has the troubleshooting mods or not. We = should get=20 more insight when we can play with it a bit more. Sure hope = so....but my=20 unit has been sitting on the shelf for a while. I can;'t remember = when I=20 actually got it. We did send it back for the "choke" circuit=20 replacment. Donno if anything else was modified on this tri back = to=20 FL.

Of=20 course Murphy is playing his role in that after having my ECU, EM and = PSRU for a=20 while, this is the first time I have needed to have Tracy = around. =20 DOH! Actually, hopefully we are not to this stage yet, however, = since all=20 the sensors included with the ECU/EM have been misplaced, it would have = been=20 nice to be able to order more. My timing can suck=20 <g>.

All=20 the best,

Chris

Christopher Barber
Attorney and Counselor at = Law
5110=20 Bissonnet, No 418
Bellaire, Texas 77401

Serving the Needs of = Senior=20 Texans

281-464-LAWS (5297)
281-754-4168 = Fax
www.TexasAttorney.net=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:35 = AM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Start... = Well...=20 Not Quite..

Chris,

A pin hole at that point might be meant to let = any vapor=20 escape and route back to the return line rather than the main fuel=20 return. A pin hole will certainly not flow back very much liquid = fuel. At idle most of the fuel would normally be returned, at = WOT much=20 less of the fuel will be returned. However, this should not = stopped the=20 engine from firing.

Ed

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Christopher Barber =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 = 12:12=20 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = First Start...=20 Well... Not Quite..

I=20 was wondering about the fuel return too, not as to why we are not = getting a=20 start, but more in general since the Mistral intake has a pin hole = at the=20 end of the fuel rail as it enters the return = hose.

The return line is the same size as the inlet = lines.....fitted for a=20 AN 6 connection (can't think what makes the = hose)

Chris

Christopher Barber
Attorney and Counselor at = Law
5110=20 Bissonnet, No 418
Bellaire, Texas 77401

Serving the Needs = of=20 Senior Texans

281-464-LAWS (5297)
281-754-4168=20 Fax
www.TexasAttorney.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of = Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:47 = AM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First = Start...=20 Well... Not Quite..

Have you tried the injector simulation test to see if the = injectors=20 are working?

How=20 long has this feature been in the EC-2? I was thinking = this was=20 a new addition, so most people still wouldn't have it??? = I've sure=20 never known about it until recently, and I made a note to try mine = to see=20 if this works.

I would=20 vote for fuel as well, though I'd also recheck the CAS as Ed=20 mentioned. If you did that much cranking, some = with cold=20 start on, you'd have to smell fuel in the exhaust if your = injectors were=20 working.

As for=20 fuel pressure, what size is your fuel return line to the = tanks? Most=20 people get a couple psi increase with the second pump. To = get as=20 much as you have, I'm thinking the fuel return can't flow enough = to return=20 the volume from both pumps at once. This isn't necessarily = something=20 that has to be fixed though.

Good=20 luck,

Rusty
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