X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.74] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.9) with ESMTP id 2072723 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:31:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.226.175.74; envelope-from=wilenius@sympatico.ca Received: from office ([65.94.117.115]) by tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20070529143031.WXTI1637.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@office> for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:30:31 -0400 From: "The Wilenius Family" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Recommendations Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:31:03 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C7A1DC.755BDC60" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C7A1DC.755BDC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't clain to know anything about this topic, but a quick search found this. These guys look like they're dealing with a bit more velocity and might be a good starting point. There is a reference to the geometry they're using. You might want to make them slightly smaller though :) http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/tt/research/aerodynamics/windtunnel/vanes .html One thing that is meantioned is that, where possible you'll want the air to expand first before going through the vanes because the energy loss is proportional to the square of the velocity. Get the velocity down before making a sharp turn ... where possible. In your case that would mean getting them as far back from the inlet as practical. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 12:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Recommendations . Be aware that HVAC ducting is generally not dealing with air flows that they have to slow down from 160 + MPH. While I do not pretend to be HVAC knowledgeable - the environment and conditions are different - that is not to say there may not be good ideas there - just a different environment. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Haverlah To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling Recommendations Rotary Group, Thanks for the suggestions - questions etc. Questions and--- maybe answers Oil pan clearance. The oil pan is a flat bottom Renesis stock pan . In the first picture sent 5/27 it is about level with the white motor mount tube under the engine. At the front it is about 2 inches from the radiator surface. At the back it is about 8 inches above the radiator. The pan only covers some of the water rad. and none of the oil rad. I get better cooling on the water side so I don't believe it is a problem. Duct shape. My James cowl inlet ended about 3/4 inch inside the opening. I added foam and glass to make a smooth transition to the bottom and sides of the cowl. Air entering near the top of the inlet either turns up about 90 deg.within 2 inches of the inlet to the air filter or goes straight back to the radiator. I don't like this arrangement but don't know how much the turbulance contributes to poor cooling. My first attempt to improve the top inlet flow made cooling worse so I am looking at other areas now. Water hose may be restrictive. The hoses in the first 5/27 picture are oil lines to the oil cooler. An-10 to the cooler and AN-8 back to the engine. The water coolant hoses are AN-20 not shown because they are behind and on the other side of the engine. Turnning Vane construction. I can easily construct a support that bolts to the bottom of the cowl. This may be able to be installed through the inlet without taking the bottom cowl off. I have not found much information on flow turning vanes in either the K&W Chapter 12 or Hoerner's Fluid -Dynamic Drag. Probably need to look at HVAC duct design information. Dennis H. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 5/28/2007 11:40 AM ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C7A1DC.755BDC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=20 don't clain to know anything about this topic, but a quick search found = this.=20 These guys look like they're dealing with a bit more velocity and might = be a=20 good starting point. There is a reference to the geometry they're using. = You=20 might want to make them slightly smaller though :)

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/tt/research/aerodyna= mics/windtunnel/vanes.html

One thing that is meantioned is that, where possible = you'll want=20 the air to expand first before going through the vanes because the = energy loss=20 is proportional to the square of the velocity. Get the velocity down = before=20 making a sharp turn ... where possible. In your case that would mean = getting=20 them as far back from the inlet as practical.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 12:16 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling=20 Recommendations

<snip> .

Be aware that HVAC ducting is generally not = dealing with=20 air flows that they have to slow down from 160 + MPH. While I do = not=20 pretend to be HVAC knowledgeable - the environment and conditions are=20 different - that is not to say there may not be good ideas there - = just a=20 different environment.

<snip>

Ed

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dennis Haverlah
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 = 11:58=20 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling=20 Recommendations

Rotary Group,
Thanks for the suggestions - = questions etc.=20

Questions and--- maybe answers

Oil pan=20 clearance.
The oil pan is a flat bottom Renesis stock pan . = In the=20 first picture sent 5/27 it is about level with the white motor mount = tube=20 under the engine. At the front it is about 2 inches from the = radiator=20 surface. At the back it is about 8 inches above the = radiator. =20 The pan only covers some of the water rad. and none of the oil = rad. I=20 get better cooling on the water side so I don't believe it is a=20 problem.

Duct shape.
My James cowl inlet ended = about 3/4=20 inch inside the opening. I added foam and glass to make a = smooth=20 transition to the bottom and sides of the cowl. Air entering = near the=20 top of the inlet either turns up about 90 deg.within 2 inches = of the=20 inlet to the air filter or goes straight back to the radiator. = I don't=20 like this arrangement but don't know how much the turbulance = contributes to=20 poor cooling. My first attempt to improve the top inlet flow = made=20 cooling worse so I am looking at other areas now.

Water hose = may be=20 restrictive.
The hoses in the first 5/27 picture are oil lines to = the oil=20 cooler. An-10 to the cooler and AN-8 back to the = engine.
The water=20 coolant hoses are AN-20 not shown because they are behind and on the = other=20 side of the engine.

Turnning Vane construction.
I can = easily=20 construct a support that bolts to the bottom of the cowl. This = may be=20 able to be installed through the inlet without taking the bottom = cowl off.=20
I have not found much information on flow turning vanes in = either the=20 K&W Chapter 12 or Hoerner's Fluid -Dynamic Drag. Probably = need to=20 look at HVAC duct design information.

Dennis=20 H.

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