X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 50 [XX] (30%) URL: contains host with port number (30%) URL: HTTP is broken (15%) BODY: contains text similar to "no experience" (-27%) URL: weird port adjustment Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-05.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.104] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2056349 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:13:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.104; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-05.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4LCD59g008281 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000301c79ba1$a44c9230$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fix that Thing! Was Frustration update Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:14:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Good luck, Buly. For $500, I'll tell you where to kick it to get it to work {:>) Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bulent Aliev" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 7:39 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fix that Thing! Was Frustration update > Thanks Ed, > I'll print the whole stack of suggestions and work on it this week after > work. I think I can get an oscilloscope too. > Buly > > On May 21, 2007, at 7:30 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > >> No answer, Buly. I have no experience with the EM2. However, the two >> problems you have may or may not be related. I do not see why the >> EM2 problem would keep the EC2 from sending out the injector simulation >> pulse train. You are placing the mode switch in mode 1 (with pumps off) >> and >> pushing the program control button to simulate the injectors - I mean >> Mode 8 >> works for your ignition so I don't see what mode 1 is not working for >> the >> injectors (I know, you'd really like to know as well). >> >> I personally believe that you have tried about everything (at least >> once) >> that I can think of to suggest. The only thing I can think to recommend >> is >> that you ( or an electronic friend) need to connect an oscilloscope to >> the >> injector triggering pins of your EC2 - if the proper pulse wave form is >> there then the EC2 is OK (but you already know that isn't the problem >> because with Bob's installed it doesn't still doesn't work) - then you >> connect the oscilloscope to the other end of the injector wiring (at the >> injectors) and see what the injector pulses are indeed there and are of >> the >> proper shape. If the pulses are OK at the EC2 end and Not OK at the >> injector >> end then it must be the shielded wiring. >> >> Here is one more though. If you use a volt ohm meter to measure 12 >> volts at >> your injectors there is one more thing that could cause a problem like >> you >> are experiencing. If there is a resistance between your 12V power >> source through your injectors >> and your EC2, it could permit a small current to flow (sufficient >> to run a volt ohm meter) without any noticeable drop. However, if your >> injectors start to fire and draw a bunch of current this resistance >> could >> cause enough voltage drop across it that your injectors would not have >> enough to cause them to function. This might explain also why you can >> get a click by grounding one injector at a time - sufficient >> current/voltage to cause one to click, but trying to fire all four >> injectors many times a second (via the EC2) might create too much load. >> This is pretty far-out, but given you have tried just about everything >> plausible, I think you may have to start trying the less plausible. >> . >> I mean if Bob's and your EC2 are both functioning and the wiring is >> connected to the injectors then - either the pulse train is Not getting >> there (which doesn't seem likely giving your testing) OR the pulse is >> arriving but distorted to the point it won't open the injectors. >> >> Ed >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bulent Aliev" >> >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:51 PM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Frustration update >> >> >>> Ed, let's assume that was the problem. Why is the blink'n NOP >>> blinking? >>> Once again couple of years ago it happen and I remember it was >>> something >>> minor. But finding it, almost ate a month of my time. >>> Anybody have a good deal on a carburator :) >>> Buly >>> >>> On May 20, 2007, at 12:25 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: >>> >>>> Found this chart, Buly. If I interpret it correctly and you have >>>> more >>>> than 30 feet length of shielded cable, it would appear to distort the >>>> injector pulse sufficient for it to need reshaping. However, I >>>> presume >>>> you don't have more than a few feet - so this may not be the >>>> problem - >>>> it really depends a lot of the capacitance to the particular shield >>>> cable you used. >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Justified signal processing >>>> Waveform Maximum Reshaping >>>> transmission required >>>> Sine wave < 5 ft. not required >>>> TTL Square wave >>>> (single ended) < 30 ft. > 30 ft. >>>> TTL Square wave >>>> (complementary) < 50 ft. > 50 ft. >>>> TTL Square wave same as TTL complementary >>>> (open collector) except greater noise immunity >>>> Line Driver >>>> (differential) > 50 ft. not required >>>> Amplified analog >>>> (complementary) < 30 ft. > 30 ft. >>>> Pulse < 20 ft. not feasible >>>> If signal cables are long, the signal can require reshaping to >>>> ensure its reliability. Assuming quality cable is used, listed here >>>> are >>>> rough breakpoints at which additional processing is required. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bulent Aliev" >>>> >>>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >>>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:32 AM >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Frustration update >>>> >>>> >>>>> My coils are the LS-1 Bob, but the coils tested fine. Just the >>>>> injectors are dead when the whole thing is plugged? >>>>> Buly >>>>> >>>>> On May 17, 2007, at 11:45 PM, Bob White wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Buly, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm really disappointed. I was hoping it would fire right up. BTY, >>>>>> do you have LS-1 coils. That's what my unit is programmed for. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob W. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 17 May 2007 21:41:49 -0400 >>>>>> Bulent Aliev wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Today I received Bob White's EC and that helped clear Tracy's >>>>>>> update >>>>>>> from being the problem. Did ring all the pins between the EC plug >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> control panel. Everything checked OK. Did ring all the pins to the >>>>>>> crank angle sensor. All OK. Checked all ground pins for a 10th >>>>>>> time, >>>>>>> all OK. Headed home in disgust. I'll keep pocking until I stumble >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> something? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Buly >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>>>>>> flyrotary/List.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com >>>>>> 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding >>>>>> Cables for your rotary installation - http:// www.roblinphoto.com/ >>>>>> shop/ >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>>>>> flyrotary/List.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>>>> flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>>> flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >> flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html