X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 50 [XX] (30%) URL: contains host with port number (30%) URL: HTTP is broken (15%) BODY: contains text similar to "no experience" (-27%) URL: weird port adjustment Return-Path: Received: from imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.72] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2056318 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 May 2007 07:40:07 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.72; envelope-from=atlasyts@bellsouth.net Received: from ibm70aec.bellsouth.net ([65.8.11.104]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070521113928.PJST17534.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm70aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 07:39:28 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.50] (really [65.8.11.104]) by ibm70aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070521113927.LBGH19334.ibm70aec.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.50]> for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 07:39:27 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bulent Aliev Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fix that Thing! Was Frustration update Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:39:33 -0400 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Thanks Ed, I'll print the whole stack of suggestions and work on it this week after work. I think I can get an oscilloscope too. Buly On May 21, 2007, at 7:30 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > No answer, Buly. I have no experience with the EM2. However, the two > problems you have may or may not be related. I do not see why the > EM2 problem would keep the EC2 from sending out the injector > simulation > pulse train. You are placing the mode switch in mode 1 (with pumps > off) and > pushing the program control button to simulate the injectors - I > mean Mode 8 > works for your ignition so I don't see what mode 1 is not working > for the > injectors (I know, you'd really like to know as well). > > I personally believe that you have tried about everything (at least > once) > that I can think of to suggest. The only thing I can think to > recommend is > that you ( or an electronic friend) need to connect an oscilloscope > to the > injector triggering pins of your EC2 - if the proper pulse wave > form is > there then the EC2 is OK (but you already know that isn't the problem > because with Bob's installed it doesn't still doesn't work) - then you > connect the oscilloscope to the other end of the injector wiring > (at the > injectors) and see what the injector pulses are indeed there and > are of the > proper shape. If the pulses are OK at the EC2 end and Not OK at the > injector > end then it must be the shielded wiring. > > Here is one more though. If you use a volt ohm meter to measure 12 > volts at > your injectors there is one more thing that could cause a problem > like you > are experiencing. If there is a resistance between your 12V power > source through your injectors > and your EC2, it could permit a small current to flow (sufficient > to run a volt ohm meter) without any noticeable drop. However, if > your > injectors start to fire and draw a bunch of current this resistance > could > cause enough voltage drop across it that your injectors would not have > enough to cause them to function. This might explain also why you > can get a click by grounding one injector at a time - sufficient > current/voltage to cause one to click, but trying to fire all four > injectors many times a second (via the EC2) might create too much > load. This is pretty far-out, but given you have tried just about > everything plausible, I think you may have to start trying the less > plausible. > . > I mean if Bob's and your EC2 are both functioning and the wiring is > connected to the injectors then - either the pulse train is Not > getting > there (which doesn't seem likely giving your testing) OR the pulse is > arriving but distorted to the point it won't open the injectors. > > Ed > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bulent Aliev" > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:51 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Frustration update > > >> Ed, let's assume that was the problem. Why is the blink'n NOP >> blinking? >> Once again couple of years ago it happen and I remember it was >> something >> minor. But finding it, almost ate a month of my time. >> Anybody have a good deal on a carburator :) >> Buly >> >> On May 20, 2007, at 12:25 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: >> >>> Found this chart, Buly. If I interpret it correctly and you >>> have more >>> than 30 feet length of shielded cable, it would appear to >>> distort the >>> injector pulse sufficient for it to need reshaping. However, I >>> presume >>> you don't have more than a few feet - so this may not be the >>> problem - >>> it really depends a lot of the capacitance to the particular shield >>> cable you used. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> >>> Justified signal processing >>> Waveform Maximum Reshaping >>> transmission required >>> Sine wave < 5 ft. not required >>> TTL Square wave >>> (single ended) < 30 ft. > 30 ft. >>> TTL Square wave >>> (complementary) < 50 ft. > 50 ft. >>> TTL Square wave same as TTL complementary >>> (open collector) except greater noise immunity >>> Line Driver >>> (differential) > 50 ft. not required >>> Amplified analog >>> (complementary) < 30 ft. > 30 ft. >>> Pulse < 20 ft. not feasible >>> If signal cables are long, the signal can require reshaping to >>> ensure its reliability. Assuming quality cable is used, listed >>> here are >>> rough breakpoints at which additional processing is required. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bulent Aliev" >>> >>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:32 AM >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Frustration update >>> >>> >>>> My coils are the LS-1 Bob, but the coils tested fine. Just the >>>> injectors are dead when the whole thing is plugged? >>>> Buly >>>> >>>> On May 17, 2007, at 11:45 PM, Bob White wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Buly, >>>>> >>>>> I'm really disappointed. I was hoping it would fire right up. >>>>> BTY, >>>>> do you have LS-1 coils. That's what my unit is programmed for. >>>>> >>>>> Bob W. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 17 May 2007 21:41:49 -0400 >>>>> Bulent Aliev wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Today I received Bob White's EC and that helped clear Tracy's >>>>>> update >>>>>> from being the problem. Did ring all the pins between the EC >>>>>> plug and >>>>>> control panel. Everything checked OK. Did ring all the pins to >>>>>> the >>>>>> crank angle sensor. All OK. Checked all ground pins for a >>>>>> 10th time, >>>>>> all OK. Headed home in disgust. I'll keep pocking until I >>>>>> stumble on >>>>>> something? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Buly >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>>>>> flyrotary/List.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com >>>>> 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding >>>>> Cables for your rotary installation - http:// >>>>> www.roblinphoto.com/ shop/ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>>>> flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>>> flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>> flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ > flyrotary/List.html