X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 50 [XX] (67%) URL: contains host with port number (33%) BODY: contains stock spam words Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.100] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2049888 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:35:27 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4HFBw28029207 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101c79895$f2d0fcc0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:13:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C79874.6B3C4A10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C79874.6B3C4A10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds good to me, Mark. I used Mazda connectors for both the CAS and = coils where they interface with the aircraft wiring. While it is = certainly well accepted practice, I do not prefer to pot connectors. = But, having said that, I certainly believe you should adopt the approach = that you prefer. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Ed,=20 During a recent telephone conversation, Tracy made this very clear = regarding the connector to the Renesis CAS. He strongly suggested that = I either use the factory Mazda connector, or else solder 6" leads to the = connector, pot them, and then use a high quality (gold pins) = weatherproof connector. I plan to use the second method. This is = another single point of failure where a failure would be very bad if it = happens while in the air. So, I'll follow Tracy's advice on this one.=20 Mark S.=20 =20 On 5/17/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Couldn't agree more, Mark. Clearly, I should have (at a minimum) wired each ignition module = separately - gold pin or not - since these are high current draw = circuits. If it had failed while flying - I would have hopefully added = to my glider time {:>). =20 I did so with my two fuel pumps, but clearly failed to do so with = the coils. I would hazard a guess that at time I did not even consider = connector pins as a risk element - the connection thereto, yes! - but = not the pin itself. =20 Again, this failure emphasizes the point of eliminating (where = feasible) all single points of failure - be they humble pins or what. =20 This is one of the reason I always report my little happenings (no = matter how embarrassing {:>)) - so that others will advance the state = of the art (make a new mistake) rather than simply repeating my = mistakes.=20 It frequently appears (to me at least) that from the lack of = other reported mistakes that I have cornered the market on them {:>) or = perhaps others may have benefited from my reports and avoided most of = them.=20 Ed Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins =20 Ed,=20 If I understand what you've said correctly, you have a single = point of failure on a flight critical circuit with this connector? WHat = if it had failed while flying? The best outcome would be that you would = have been able to add another notch to your list of dead-stick landings. = Worst case, well, I won't go there. To me, gold plated pins would be a = must, or else remove the connector from the circuit and wire it direct. = The convenience of quicker panel removal doesn't make up for the added = risk, IMHO.=20 I followed your advice on fuses vs. circuit breakers and now have = all flight critical circuits controlled by resettable circuit breakers = on an always hot bus. That made good sense. Having a single point of = failure and not using the absolute best parts doesn't make any sense. =20 Mark S. =20 On 5/16/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Thanks, Bob. I went with tin as my research indicated that was more than = suitable - in fact I think (if memory serves me) that aircraft wire is tin = coated to=20 prevent the copper oxidizing. My plug is exposed to moisture = when the canopy is open, rain/dew, etc. Also, I did not use any = corrosion preventive such as grease or spray so given all that, perhaps the news is = that it held=20 up so well for so long. So given its been over 10 years, I guess gold is not a = requirement {:>). Wow! $1200 and its not even solid gold {:>) Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob White" < rlwhite@comcast.net> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:39 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Gold Plated Pins > On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:26 -0400 > "Ed Anderson" < eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote: > > >> >> Perhaps Bob White can chime in here, my recommendation would = be to go >> with the gold plated pins vice the tin plated on for critical = systems=20 >> especially where they might be exposed to weather (like the = tip up canopy=20 >> can do). > > >> Ed >> Ed Anderson >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> Matthews, NC=20 >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20 >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html=20 > > That's an interesting question Ed. The EFI and coil = connectors use tin > plated connectors also. They are both sealed so that = undoubtedly helps > and I haven't heard of any major problems in the auto industry = caused=20 > by the connections going bad. I can theoretically get gold or = silver > plated pins for the coil connectors, but the coil is still tin = plated. > Also, for the gold pins, there is a minimum order of $1200 so = there=20 > would have to be a huge demand. :) I don't have a source for = gold or > silver pins for the EFI connectors. Using a sealed connector = might be a > better way to go. Molex also makes sealed connectors and I = have the 6=20 > and 8 pin versions of the same Metri-Pack connectors used on = the LS-1 > coils available. That's the larger one. I use them for the = EFI and Coil > cables. Someday I'll get all this stuff in my catalog.=20 > > The information I have on gold and silver plating is related = more to > switch contacts. If the switch is handling a signal (low = current) gold > is preferred. If it's switching power, silver is better. = When there=20 > is arcing, the gold tends to be vaporized leaving the base = material. > I don't know if the silver is less prone to vaporization or a = thicker > layer is used but power switches are silver plated. > > Bob W. > > -- > N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com > 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding > Cables for your rotary installation - = http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/=20 > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C79874.6B3C4A10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sounds good to me, Mark.  I used Mazda = connectors for=20 both the CAS and coils where they interface with the aircraft = wiring. While=20 it is certainly well  accepted practice,  I do not prefer to = pot=20 connectors.  But, having said that, I certainly believe you should = adopt=20 the approach that you prefer.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 = 9:55=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold = Plated=20 Pins

Ed,
During a recent telephone conversation, Tracy made this very = clear=20 regarding the connector to the Renesis CAS.  He strongly = suggested=20 that I either use the factory Mazda connector, or else = solder 6"=20 leads to the connector, pot them, and then use a high quality (gold = pins)=20 weatherproof connector.  I plan to use the second=20 method. This is another single point of failure where a = failure=20 would be very bad if it happens while in the air.  So, = I'll follow=20 Tracy's advice on this one.
 
Mark S. 

 
On 5/17/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Couldn't agree more, Mark.
 
Clearly, I should have (at a minimum) =  wired each=20 ignition module separately - gold pin or not - since these are high = current=20 draw circuits.   If it had failed while flying - I would = have=20 hopefully added to my glider time {:>). 
 
 I did so with my two fuel pumps, but = clearly=20 failed to do so with the coils. I would hazard a guess that at = time I=20 did not even consider connector pins as a risk element - the = connection=20 thereto, yes! -  but not the pin = itself.    =20
 
Again, this failure emphasizes the point of=20 eliminating (where feasible) all single points of failure - be they = humble=20 pins or what. 
 
This is one of the reason I always report my = little=20 happenings (no matter how embarrassing {:>)) -  so that = others=20 will advance the state of the art (make a new mistake) rather than = simply=20 repeating my mistakes.
 
  It frequently appears (to me at = least) that=20  from the lack of other reported mistakes that I have cornered = the=20 market on them {:>) or perhaps others may have benefited = from my=20 reports  and avoided most of them.
 
Ed
 
 
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Mark = Steitle
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Thursday, May 17, = 2007 9:04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Gold Plated=20 Pins

 
Ed,
 
If I understand what you've said correctly, you have a single = point=20 of failure on a flight critical circuit with this connector?  = WHat if=20 it had failed while flying?  The best outcome would be = that you=20 would have been able to add another notch to your list of = dead-stick=20 landings.  Worst case, well, I won't go there.  To me, = gold=20 plated pins would be a must, or else remove the connector from the = circuit=20 and wire it direct.  The convenience of quicker panel removal = doesn't=20 make up for the added risk, IMHO.
 
I followed your advice on fuses vs. circuit breakers and now = have all=20 flight critical circuits controlled by resettable circuit breakers = on an=20 always hot bus.  That made good sense.  Having a single = point of=20 failure and not using the absolute best parts doesn't make any=20 sense.  
 
Mark S.


 
On 5/16/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com > wrote:=20
Thanks,=20 Bob.

I went with tin as my research indicated that was = more than=20 suitable - in
fact I think (if memory serves me) that = aircraft wire=20 is tin coated to
prevent the copper oxidizing.  My = plug is=20 exposed to moisture when the
canopy is open, rain/dew,=20 etc.  Also, I did not use any corrosion = preventive
such as=20 grease or spray so given all that, perhaps the news is that it = held=20
up so well for so long.

So given its been over 10 = years, I=20 guess gold is not a requirement {:>).
Wow! $1200 and its = not even=20 solid gold {:>)



Ed

----- Original = Message=20 -----
From: "Bob White" < rlwhite@comcast.net>
To: "Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft" <=20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, = 2007=20 3:39 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Gold Plated = Pins


> On=20 Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:26 -0400
> "Ed Anderson" <=20 eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
>=20 <snip>
>>
>> Perhaps Bob White can chime = in=20 here, my recommendation would be to go
>> with the gold = plated=20 pins vice the tin plated on for critical systems
>> = especially=20 where they might be exposed to weather (like the tip up canopy=20
>> can do).
> <snip
>>
>>=20 Ed
>> Ed Anderson
>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
>> Matthews, NC
>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW=
>>=20 http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html =
>
>=20 That's an interesting question Ed.  The EFI and coil=20 connectors use tin
> plated connectors = also.  They are=20 both sealed so that undoubtedly helps
> and I haven't = heard of any=20 major problems in the auto industry caused
> by the = connections=20 going bad.  I can theoretically get gold or = silver
>=20 plated pins for the coil connectors, but the coil is still tin=20 plated.
> Also, for the gold pins, there is a minimum = order of=20 $1200 so there
> would have to be a huge demand. :) I = don't have=20 a source for gold or
> silver pins for the EFI=20 connectors.  Using a sealed connector might be = a
>=20 better way to go.  Molex also makes sealed connectors = and I=20 have the 6
> and 8 pin versions of the same Metri-Pack = connectors=20 used on the LS-1
> coils available. That's the larger=20 one.  I use them for the EFI and Coil
>=20 cables.  Someday I'll get all this stuff in my = catalog.=20
>
> The information I have on gold and silver = plating is=20 related more to
> switch contacts.  If the = switch is=20 handling a signal (low current) gold
> is = preferred.  If=20 it's switching power, silver is better.  When there =
>=20 is arcing, the gold tends to be vaporized leaving the base=20 material.
> I don't know if the silver is less prone to=20 vaporization or a thicker
> layer is used but power = switches are=20 silver plated.
>
> Bob W.
>
> --
> = N93BD -=20 Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
> 3.8 Hours = Total Time=20 and holding
> Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ =
>
>=20 --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive = and=20 UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l=20 =


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