X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 10 [X] Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.102] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2049742 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:15:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.102; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4HFE5Cm002169 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c79896$3e83a640$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:15:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C79874.B6F3AE80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C79874.B6F3AE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Bobby. That's the principal reason for revealing (sometimes = embarrassing) short comings in my analysis, design, work, fabrication, = etc. So the next person won't need to {:>) Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:52 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Ed, Everyone appreciates this kind of information and contributes to all = of our safety.=20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:42 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Couldn't agree more, Mark. Clearly, I should have (at a minimum) wired each ignition module = separately - gold pin or not - since these are high current draw = circuits. If it had failed while flying - I would have hopefully added = to my glider time {:>).=20 I did so with my two fuel pumps, but clearly failed to do so with the = coils. I would hazard a guess that at time I did not even consider = connector pins as a risk element - the connection thereto, yes! - but = not the pin itself. =20 Again, this failure emphasizes the point of eliminating (where = feasible) all single points of failure - be they humble pins or what. =20 This is one of the reason I always report my little happenings (no = matter how embarrassing {:>)) - so that others will advance the state = of the art (make a new mistake) rather than simply repeating my = mistakes. It frequently appears (to me at least) that from the lack of other = reported mistakes that I have cornered the market on them {:>) or = perhaps others may have benefited from my reports and avoided most of = them. Ed Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Ed,=20 If I understand what you've said correctly, you have a single point = of failure on a flight critical circuit with this connector? WHat if it = had failed while flying? The best outcome would be that you would have = been able to add another notch to your list of dead-stick landings. = Worst case, well, I won't go there. To me, gold plated pins would be a = must, or else remove the connector from the circuit and wire it direct. = The convenience of quicker panel removal doesn't make up for the added = risk, IMHO.=20 I followed your advice on fuses vs. circuit breakers and now have = all flight critical circuits controlled by resettable circuit breakers = on an always hot bus. That made good sense. Having a single point of = failure and not using the absolute best parts doesn't make any sense. =20 Mark S. =20 On 5/16/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Thanks, Bob. I went with tin as my research indicated that was more than = suitable - in fact I think (if memory serves me) that aircraft wire is tin = coated to=20 prevent the copper oxidizing. My plug is exposed to moisture when = the canopy is open, rain/dew, etc. Also, I did not use any corrosion = preventive such as grease or spray so given all that, perhaps the news is = that it held=20 up so well for so long. So given its been over 10 years, I guess gold is not a requirement = {:>). Wow! $1200 and its not even solid gold {:>) Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob White" < rlwhite@comcast.net> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:39 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Gold Plated Pins > On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:26 -0400 > "Ed Anderson" wrote: > > >> >> Perhaps Bob White can chime in here, my recommendation would be = to go >> with the gold plated pins vice the tin plated on for critical = systems >> especially where they might be exposed to weather (like the tip = up canopy=20 >> can do). > > >> Ed >> Ed Anderson >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> Matthews, NC >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20 >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html=20 > > That's an interesting question Ed. The EFI and coil connectors = use tin > plated connectors also. They are both sealed so that = undoubtedly helps > and I haven't heard of any major problems in the auto industry = caused=20 > by the connections going bad. I can theoretically get gold or = silver > plated pins for the coil connectors, but the coil is still tin = plated. > Also, for the gold pins, there is a minimum order of $1200 so = there=20 > would have to be a huge demand. :) I don't have a source for = gold or > silver pins for the EFI connectors. Using a sealed connector = might be a > better way to go. Molex also makes sealed connectors and I have = the 6=20 > and 8 pin versions of the same Metri-Pack connectors used on the = LS-1 > coils available. That's the larger one. I use them for the EFI = and Coil > cables. Someday I'll get all this stuff in my catalog.=20 > > The information I have on gold and silver plating is related = more to > switch contacts. If the switch is handling a signal (low = current) gold > is preferred. If it's switching power, silver is better. When = there=20 > is arcing, the gold tends to be vaporized leaving the base = material. > I don't know if the silver is less prone to vaporization or a = thicker > layer is used but power switches are silver plated. > > Bob W. > > -- > N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com > 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding > Cables for your rotary installation - = http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C79874.B6F3AE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Bobby.  That's the principal reason = for=20 revealing (sometimes embarrassing) short comings in my = analysis, design,=20 work, fabrication, etc.  So the next person won't need to=20 {:>)
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bobby J. = Hughes=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 = 10:52=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold = Plated=20 Pins

Ed,
 
Everyone appreciates this kind of = information and=20 contributes to all of our safety.
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:42 AM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated=20 Pins

Couldn't agree more, Mark.
 
Clearly, I should have (at a minimum) =  wired each=20 ignition module separately - gold pin or not - since these are high = current=20 draw circuits.   If it had failed while flying - I would = have=20 hopefully added to my glider time {:>). 
 
 I did so with my two fuel pumps, but = clearly=20 failed to do so with the coils. I would hazard a guess that at = time I did=20 not even consider connector pins as a risk element - the = connection=20 thereto, yes! -  but not the pin=20 itself.    
 
Again, this failure emphasizes the point of = eliminating=20 (where feasible) all single points of failure - be they humble pins or = what. 
 
This is one of the reason I always report my = little=20 happenings (no matter how embarrassing {:>)) -  so that = others=20 will advance the state of the art (make a new mistake) rather than = simply=20 repeating my mistakes.
 
  It frequently appears (to me at least) = that=20  from the lack of other reported mistakes that I have cornered = the=20 market on them {:>) or perhaps others may have benefited from = my=20 reports  and avoided most of them.
 
Ed
 
 
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark=20 Steitle
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 = 9:04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold = Plated=20 Pins

Ed,
 
If I understand what you've said correctly, you have a single = point of=20 failure on a flight critical circuit with this connector?  WHat = if it=20 had failed while flying?  The best outcome would be = that you would=20 have been able to add another notch to your list of dead-stick=20 landings.  Worst case, well, I won't go there.  To me, = gold plated=20 pins would be a must, or else remove the connector from the circuit = and wire=20 it direct.  The convenience of quicker panel removal doesn't = make up=20 for the added risk, IMHO.
 
I followed your advice on fuses vs. circuit breakers and now = have all=20 flight critical circuits controlled by resettable circuit breakers = on an=20 always hot bus.  That made good sense.  Having a single = point of=20 failure and not using the absolute best parts doesn't make any=20 sense.  
 
Mark S.


 
On 5/16/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Thanks,=20 Bob.

I went with tin as my research indicated that was more = than=20 suitable - in
fact I think (if memory serves me) that aircraft = wire is=20 tin coated to
prevent the copper oxidizing.  My plug = is=20 exposed to moisture when the
canopy is open, rain/dew,=20 etc.  Also, I did not use any corrosion = preventive
such as=20 grease or spray so given all that, perhaps the news is that it = held
up=20 so well for so long.

So given its been over 10 years, I = guess gold=20 is not a requirement {:>).
Wow! $1200 and its not even solid = gold=20 {:>)



Ed

----- Original Message = -----
From:=20 "Bob White" < rlwhite@comcast.net>
To:=20 "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Gold = Plated=20 Pins


> On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:26 -0400
> = "Ed=20 Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> = Perhaps Bob=20 White can chime in here, my recommendation would be to = go
>> with=20 the gold plated pins vice the tin plated on for critical=20 systems
>> especially where they might be exposed to = weather=20 (like the tip up canopy
>> can do).
>=20 <snip
>>
>> Ed
>> Ed = Anderson
>>=20 Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>> Matthews, NC
>> = eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20
>> http:/= /members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>=20 http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html=20
>
> That's an interesting question = Ed.  The EFI=20 and coil connectors use tin
> plated connectors=20 also.  They are both sealed so that undoubtedly = helps
>=20 and I haven't heard of any major problems in the auto industry = caused=20
> by the connections going bad.  I can = theoretically get=20 gold or silver
> plated pins for the coil connectors, but = the coil=20 is still tin plated.
> Also, for the gold pins, there is a = minimum=20 order of $1200 so there
> would have to be a huge demand. = :) I=20 don't have a source for gold or
> silver pins for the EFI=20 connectors.  Using a sealed connector might be a
> = better=20 way to go.  Molex also makes sealed connectors and I = have the 6=20
> and 8 pin versions of the same Metri-Pack connectors used = on the=20 LS-1
> coils available. That's the larger one.  I = use them=20 for the EFI and Coil
> cables.  Someday I'll get = all this=20 stuff in my catalog.
>
> The information I have on = gold and=20 silver plating is related more to
> switch = contacts.  If=20 the switch is handling a signal (low current) gold
> is=20 preferred.  If it's switching power, silver is=20 better.  When there
> is arcing, the gold tends = to be=20 vaporized leaving the base material.
> I don't know if the = silver is=20 less prone to vaporization or a thicker
> layer is used but = power=20 switches are silver plated.
>
> Bob W.
>
> = --
> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
> = 3.8=20 Hours Total Time and holding
> Cables for your rotary = installation -=20 http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop= /
>
>=20 --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = Archive and UnSub:
> http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve=20 and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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