X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 10 [X] Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.248] (HELO qnsi-xch.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2049569 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:51:17 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.248; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C79892.F635D51E" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:52:16 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Thread-Index: AceYkbcCGP9GfHnMQjeGBST+xySdCwAAQXzg From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C79892.F635D51E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, =20 Everyone appreciates this kind of information and contributes to all of our safety.=20 =20 Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:42 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Couldn't agree more, Mark. =20 Clearly, I should have (at a minimum) wired each ignition module separately - gold pin or not - since these are high current draw circuits. If it had failed while flying - I would have hopefully added to my glider time {:>).=20 =20 I did so with my two fuel pumps, but clearly failed to do so with the coils. I would hazard a guess that at time I did not even consider connector pins as a risk element - the connection thereto, yes! - but not the pin itself. =20 =20 Again, this failure emphasizes the point of eliminating (where feasible) all single points of failure - be they humble pins or what. =20 =20 This is one of the reason I always report my little happenings (no matter how embarrassing {:>)) - so that others will advance the state of the art (make a new mistake) rather than simply repeating my mistakes. =20 It frequently appears (to me at least) that from the lack of other reported mistakes that I have cornered the market on them {:>) or perhaps others may have benefited from my reports and avoided most of them. =20 Ed =20 =20 =20 Ed =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Ed,=20 =20 If I understand what you've said correctly, you have a single point of failure on a flight critical circuit with this connector? WHat if it had failed while flying? The best outcome would be that you would have been able to add another notch to your list of dead-stick landings. Worst case, well, I won't go there. To me, gold plated pins would be a must, or else remove the connector from the circuit and wire it direct. The convenience of quicker panel removal doesn't make up for the added risk, IMHO.=20 =20 I followed your advice on fuses vs. circuit breakers and now have all flight critical circuits controlled by resettable circuit breakers on an always hot bus. That made good sense. Having a single point of failure and not using the absolute best parts doesn't make any sense. =20 =20 Mark S. =20 On 5/16/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Thanks, Bob. =09 I went with tin as my research indicated that was more than suitable - in fact I think (if memory serves me) that aircraft wire is tin coated to=20 prevent the copper oxidizing. My plug is exposed to moisture when the canopy is open, rain/dew, etc. Also, I did not use any corrosion preventive such as grease or spray so given all that, perhaps the news is that it held=20 up so well for so long. =09 So given its been over 10 years, I guess gold is not a requirement {:>). Wow! $1200 and its not even solid gold {:>) =09 =09 =09 Ed =09 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob White" < rlwhite@comcast.net> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:39 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Gold Plated Pins =09 =09 > On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:26 -0400 > "Ed Anderson" wrote: > > >> >> Perhaps Bob White can chime in here, my recommendation would be to go >> with the gold plated pins vice the tin plated on for critical systems >> especially where they might be exposed to weather (like the tip up canopy=20 >> can do). > > >> Ed >> Ed Anderson >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> Matthews, NC >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20 >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html=20 > > That's an interesting question Ed. The EFI and coil connectors use tin > plated connectors also. They are both sealed so that undoubtedly helps > and I haven't heard of any major problems in the auto industry caused=20 > by the connections going bad. I can theoretically get gold or silver > plated pins for the coil connectors, but the coil is still tin plated. > Also, for the gold pins, there is a minimum order of $1200 so there=20 > would have to be a huge demand. :) I don't have a source for gold or > silver pins for the EFI connectors. Using a sealed connector might be a > better way to go. Molex also makes sealed connectors and I have the 6=20 > and 8 pin versions of the same Metri-Pack connectors used on the LS-1 > coils available. That's the larger one. I use them for the EFI and Coil > cables. Someday I'll get all this stuff in my catalog.=20 > > The information I have on gold and silver plating is related more to > switch contacts. If the switch is handling a signal (low current) gold > is preferred. If it's switching power, silver is better. When there=20 > is arcing, the gold tends to be vaporized leaving the base material. > I don't know if the silver is less prone to vaporization or a thicker > layer is used but power switches are silver plated. > > Bob W. > > -- > N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com > 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding > Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =09 =09 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =09 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C79892.F635D51E Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
 
Everyone appreciates this kind of information = and=20 contributes to all of our safety.
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:42 AM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated=20 Pins

Couldn't agree more, Mark.
 
Clearly, I should have (at a minimum) =  wired each=20 ignition module separately - gold pin or not - since these are high = current draw=20 circuits.   If it had failed while flying - I would have = hopefully=20 added to my glider time {:>). 
 
 I did so with my two fuel pumps, but = clearly failed=20 to do so with the coils. I would hazard a guess that at time I did = not even=20 consider connector pins as a risk element - the connection thereto, = yes! -=20  but not the pin itself.    
 
Again, this failure emphasizes the point of = eliminating=20 (where feasible) all single points of failure - be they humble pins or=20 what. 
 
This is one of the reason I always report my = little=20 happenings (no matter how embarrassing {:>)) -  so that = others will=20 advance the state of the art (make a new mistake) rather than simply = repeating=20 my mistakes.
 
  It frequently appears (to me at least) = that=20  from the lack of other reported mistakes that I have cornered the=20 market on them {:>) or perhaps others may have benefited from my = reports  and avoided most of them.
 
Ed
 
 
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 = 9:04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold = Plated=20 Pins

Ed,
 
If I understand what you've said correctly, you have a single = point of=20 failure on a flight critical circuit with this connector?  WHat = if it had=20 failed while flying?  The best outcome would be that you = would have=20 been able to add another notch to your list of dead-stick = landings. =20 Worst case, well, I won't go there.  To me, gold plated pins = would be a=20 must, or else remove the connector from the circuit and wire it = direct. =20 The convenience of quicker panel removal doesn't make up for the added = risk,=20 IMHO.
 
I followed your advice on fuses vs. circuit breakers and now have = all=20 flight critical circuits controlled by resettable circuit breakers on = an=20 always hot bus.  That made good sense.  Having a single = point of=20 failure and not using the absolute best parts doesn't make any=20 sense.  
 
Mark S.


 
On 5/16/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Thanks,=20 Bob.

I went with tin as my research indicated that was more = than=20 suitable - in
fact I think (if memory serves me) that aircraft = wire is=20 tin coated to
prevent the copper oxidizing.  My plug = is=20 exposed to moisture when the
canopy is open, rain/dew,=20 etc.  Also, I did not use any corrosion preventive
such = as=20 grease or spray so given all that, perhaps the news is that it held =
up=20 so well for so long.

So given its been over 10 years, I guess = gold is=20 not a requirement {:>).
Wow! $1200 and its not even solid gold = {:>)



Ed

----- Original Message = -----
From: "Bob=20 White" < rlwhite@comcast.net>
To: = "Rotary=20 motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Gold Plated = Pins


> On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:26 -0400
> "Ed=20 Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Perhaps = Bob=20 White can chime in here, my recommendation would be to = go
>> with=20 the gold plated pins vice the tin plated on for critical = systems
>>=20 especially where they might be exposed to weather (like the tip up = canopy=20
>> can do).
> <snip
>>
>>=20 Ed
>> Ed Anderson
>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
>> Matthews, NC
>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20
>> http:/= /members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>=20 http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html=20
>
> That's an interesting question = Ed.  The EFI=20 and coil connectors use tin
> plated connectors = also.  They=20 are both sealed so that undoubtedly helps
> and I haven't = heard of any=20 major problems in the auto industry caused
> by the = connections going=20 bad.  I can theoretically get gold or silver
> = plated pins=20 for the coil connectors, but the coil is still tin plated.
> = Also, for=20 the gold pins, there is a minimum order of $1200 so there
> = would=20 have to be a huge demand. :) I don't have a source for gold = or
>=20 silver pins for the EFI connectors.  Using a sealed = connector=20 might be a
> better way to go.  Molex also makes = sealed=20 connectors and I have the 6
> and 8 pin versions of the same=20 Metri-Pack connectors used on the LS-1
> coils available. = That's the=20 larger one.  I use them for the EFI and Coil
>=20 cables.  Someday I'll get all this stuff in my catalog.=20
>
> The information I have on gold and silver plating = is=20 related more to
> switch contacts.  If the switch is = handling a signal (low current) gold
> is = preferred.  If=20 it's switching power, silver is better.  When there =
> is=20 arcing, the gold tends to be vaporized leaving the base = material.
> I=20 don't know if the silver is less prone to vaporization or a = thicker
>=20 layer is used but power switches are silver plated.
>
> = Bob=20 W.
>
> --
> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
> = 3.8=20 Hours Total Time and holding
> Cables for your rotary = installation -=20 http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop= /
>
>=20 --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = Archive and UnSub:
> http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve=20 and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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