X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 10 [X] Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-05.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.104] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2049543 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:41:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.104; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-05.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4HDeWk9010969 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701c79889$2ce316d0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:42:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C79867.A56FA7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C79867.A56FA7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Couldn't agree more, Mark. Clearly, I should have (at a minimum) wired each ignition module = separately - gold pin or not - since these are high current draw = circuits. If it had failed while flying - I would have hopefully added = to my glider time {:>).=20 I did so with my two fuel pumps, but clearly failed to do so with the = coils. I would hazard a guess that at time I did not even consider = connector pins as a risk element - the connection thereto, yes! - but = not the pin itself. =20 Again, this failure emphasizes the point of eliminating (where feasible) = all single points of failure - be they humble pins or what. =20 This is one of the reason I always report my little happenings (no = matter how embarrassing {:>)) - so that others will advance the state = of the art (make a new mistake) rather than simply repeating my = mistakes. It frequently appears (to me at least) that from the lack of other = reported mistakes that I have cornered the market on them {:>) or = perhaps others may have benefited from my reports and avoided most of = them. Ed Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold Plated Pins Ed,=20 If I understand what you've said correctly, you have a single point of = failure on a flight critical circuit with this connector? WHat if it = had failed while flying? The best outcome would be that you would have = been able to add another notch to your list of dead-stick landings. = Worst case, well, I won't go there. To me, gold plated pins would be a = must, or else remove the connector from the circuit and wire it direct. = The convenience of quicker panel removal doesn't make up for the added = risk, IMHO.=20 I followed your advice on fuses vs. circuit breakers and now have all = flight critical circuits controlled by resettable circuit breakers on an = always hot bus. That made good sense. Having a single point of failure = and not using the absolute best parts doesn't make any sense. =20 Mark S. =20 On 5/16/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Thanks, Bob. I went with tin as my research indicated that was more than suitable = - in fact I think (if memory serves me) that aircraft wire is tin coated = to=20 prevent the copper oxidizing. My plug is exposed to moisture when = the canopy is open, rain/dew, etc. Also, I did not use any corrosion = preventive such as grease or spray so given all that, perhaps the news is that = it held=20 up so well for so long. So given its been over 10 years, I guess gold is not a requirement = {:>). Wow! $1200 and its not even solid gold {:>) Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob White" < rlwhite@comcast.net> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:39 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Gold Plated Pins > On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:26 -0400 > "Ed Anderson" wrote: > > >> >> Perhaps Bob White can chime in here, my recommendation would be = to go >> with the gold plated pins vice the tin plated on for critical = systems >> especially where they might be exposed to weather (like the tip = up canopy=20 >> can do). > > >> Ed >> Ed Anderson >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> Matthews, NC >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20 >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html=20 > > That's an interesting question Ed. The EFI and coil connectors = use tin > plated connectors also. They are both sealed so that undoubtedly = helps > and I haven't heard of any major problems in the auto industry = caused=20 > by the connections going bad. I can theoretically get gold or = silver > plated pins for the coil connectors, but the coil is still tin = plated. > Also, for the gold pins, there is a minimum order of $1200 so = there=20 > would have to be a huge demand. :) I don't have a source for gold = or > silver pins for the EFI connectors. Using a sealed connector = might be a > better way to go. Molex also makes sealed connectors and I have = the 6=20 > and 8 pin versions of the same Metri-Pack connectors used on the = LS-1 > coils available. That's the larger one. I use them for the EFI = and Coil > cables. Someday I'll get all this stuff in my catalog.=20 > > The information I have on gold and silver plating is related more = to > switch contacts. If the switch is handling a signal (low current) = gold > is preferred. If it's switching power, silver is better. When = there=20 > is arcing, the gold tends to be vaporized leaving the base = material. > I don't know if the silver is less prone to vaporization or a = thicker > layer is used but power switches are silver plated. > > Bob W. > > -- > N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com > 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding > Cables for your rotary installation - = http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C79867.A56FA7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Couldn't agree more, Mark.
 
Clearly, I should have (at a minimum) =  wired each=20 ignition module separately - gold pin or not - since these are high = current draw=20 circuits.   If it had failed while flying - I would have = hopefully=20 added to my glider time {:>). 
 
 I did so with my two fuel pumps, but = clearly failed=20 to do so with the coils. I would hazard a guess that at time I did = not even=20 consider connector pins as a risk element - the connection thereto, = yes! -=20  but not the pin itself.    
 
Again, this failure emphasizes the point of = eliminating=20 (where feasible) all single points of failure - be they humble pins or=20 what. 
 
This is one of the reason I always report my = little=20 happenings (no matter how embarrassing {:>)) -  so that = others will=20 advance the state of the art (make a new mistake) rather than simply = repeating=20 my mistakes.
 
  It frequently appears (to me at least) = that=20  from the lack of other reported mistakes that I have cornered the=20 market on them {:>) or perhaps others may have benefited from my = reports  and avoided most of them.
 
Ed
 
 
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 = 9:04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Gold = Plated=20 Pins

Ed,
 
If I understand what you've said correctly, you have a single = point of=20 failure on a flight critical circuit with this connector?  WHat = if it had=20 failed while flying?  The best outcome would be that you = would have=20 been able to add another notch to your list of dead-stick = landings. =20 Worst case, well, I won't go there.  To me, gold plated pins = would be a=20 must, or else remove the connector from the circuit and wire it = direct. =20 The convenience of quicker panel removal doesn't make up for the added = risk,=20 IMHO.
 
I followed your advice on fuses vs. circuit breakers and now have = all=20 flight critical circuits controlled by resettable circuit breakers on = an=20 always hot bus.  That made good sense.  Having a single = point of=20 failure and not using the absolute best parts doesn't make any=20 sense.  
 
Mark S.


 
On 5/16/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Thanks,=20 Bob.

I went with tin as my research indicated that was more = than=20 suitable - in
fact I think (if memory serves me) that aircraft = wire is=20 tin coated to
prevent the copper oxidizing.  My plug = is=20 exposed to moisture when the
canopy is open, rain/dew,=20 etc.  Also, I did not use any corrosion preventive
such = as=20 grease or spray so given all that, perhaps the news is that it held =
up=20 so well for so long.

So given its been over 10 years, I guess = gold is=20 not a requirement {:>).
Wow! $1200 and its not even solid gold = {:>)



Ed

----- Original Message = -----
From: "Bob=20 White" < rlwhite@comcast.net>
To: = "Rotary=20 motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Gold Plated = Pins


> On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:26 -0400
> "Ed=20 Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Perhaps = Bob=20 White can chime in here, my recommendation would be to = go
>> with=20 the gold plated pins vice the tin plated on for critical = systems
>>=20 especially where they might be exposed to weather (like the tip up = canopy=20
>> can do).
> <snip
>>
>>=20 Ed
>> Ed Anderson
>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
>> Matthews, NC
>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20
>> http:/= /members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>=20 http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html=20
>
> That's an interesting question = Ed.  The EFI=20 and coil connectors use tin
> plated connectors = also.  They=20 are both sealed so that undoubtedly helps
> and I haven't = heard of any=20 major problems in the auto industry caused
> by the = connections going=20 bad.  I can theoretically get gold or silver
> = plated pins=20 for the coil connectors, but the coil is still tin plated.
> = Also, for=20 the gold pins, there is a minimum order of $1200 so there
> = would=20 have to be a huge demand. :) I don't have a source for gold = or
>=20 silver pins for the EFI connectors.  Using a sealed = connector=20 might be a
> better way to go.  Molex also makes = sealed=20 connectors and I have the 6
> and 8 pin versions of the same=20 Metri-Pack connectors used on the LS-1
> coils available. = That's the=20 larger one.  I use them for the EFI and Coil
>=20 cables.  Someday I'll get all this stuff in my catalog.=20
>
> The information I have on gold and silver plating = is=20 related more to
> switch contacts.  If the switch is = handling a signal (low current) gold
> is = preferred.  If=20 it's switching power, silver is better.  When there =
> is=20 arcing, the gold tends to be vaporized leaving the base = material.
> I=20 don't know if the silver is less prone to vaporization or a = thicker
>=20 layer is used but power switches are silver plated.
>
> = Bob=20 W.
>
> --
> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
> = 3.8=20 Hours Total Time and holding
> Cables for your rotary = installation -=20 http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop= /
>
>=20 --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = Archive and UnSub:
> http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve=20 and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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