X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 10 [X] Return-Path: Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.228] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2046902 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 16 May 2007 00:28:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.162.228; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i11so407546nzi for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 21:27:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=jquH1eRfemI+I6YgCGJNsI2EY8RfMUOpot4KwV5LaDPhVt6p228a6C3vLMevTvPZQwIER5tfmoImEn5RVxk526+a6lVT/I51bS0dhxcgxllaHCBvRa+NhIrHTO0EQrOY6Ssd0yXIm26TYTVWnSx/E7aCM8ccZjsmEWX6QOP79Xk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ahRkXzjx2ab8sqPhuZ5ngQ4P8OYQ4TNDwNyFxYcDYTBPx3okqPBUDiEAjmxI9YLXlLfrkRzGY3fqovhPhXh3ghDbX3MYAegkklFklHjNkJoertZje8eGr1l6qQ2zxxtjJ5eWNV9fxlxqDdDUiGMyh9SmRsO50BWUnT6/ExzAP8M= Received: by 10.114.196.1 with SMTP id t1mr1968848waf.1179289659774; Tue, 15 May 2007 21:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.79.14 with HTTP; Tue, 15 May 2007 21:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1c23473f0705152127y299feee6mbf6a9419d63e25b2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 21:27:39 -0700 From: "David Leonard" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Marginal Cooling contributes to Crash. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_15766_26914020.1179289659709" References: ------=_Part_15766_26914020.1179289659709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Perry, I think you are right. Al, you must be thinking about my engine out incident. No crash, no damage. It was a gentle touch down on a freeway. But that is beside the point.. could have been a crash. You also have your facts wrong about location. Like Perry said, it was indeed California in winter. Marginal cooling as an underlying cause is closer to the truth, but miss leading at best. Did I have marginal cooling? Well, I could outrun any 160h.p. side-by-side RV that ever flew against, even on the hottest day. Could outrun the 180 hp RV's on cool days. I could out climb and outrun any plane that I could afford to rent, even when heat soaked on a 110 deg day with a bubble in my cooling system.. is that marginal? Maybe, because I wanted more.... by the way, according to your definition here is a short list of other planes that have marginal cooling: Every WWII fighter from every country. Every Cessna and Piper that I have ever flown. My marginal cooling was by no real means the cause of the incident, but a series of not-so-smart decisions by the owner/pilot. In order to impress my friends, I found that pure water would allow the use of more power. I didn't put in enough antifreeze when I went to the mountains for the weekend. The radiator froze and developed a small crack. I switched to Evans not to compensate for lack of cooling, but to allow me to fly home with an unpressurized cooling system (minimizing any continued leak). However, a 7psi cap was not enough pressure, even using Evans, and all the coolant came out past the radiator cap. Stupid Stupid cold and tired. So maybe if I had unlimited cooling I might not have ever had an issue. Then again, given my quest for power ... I might then have chosen to convert to NitroMethane and just blown myself up... :-) In other words, in my case, you really have to blame "must impress my friends..." more than the cooling system itself. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY N4VY.RotaryRoster.net www.RotaryRoster.net On 5/15/07, Perry Mick wrote: > > al p wick wrote: > > *If you guys just measure your temps as I described earlier, then all of > the successes could be copied. > * > > > Because, heh, it's not like anybody has ever said anything about their > temps on their first flight. Everybody is SO secretive with that > information. You can't get anyone to tell you anything about their radiator > sizes, or inlet sizes, and I've never heard anyone mention NACA ducts or > external diffusion. Just a bunch of guys talking all day with no one EVER > mentioning a number. > > Ernest (wishing SOMEONE would tell me how well their cooling system is > working) > > > My cooling systems works so well, that the coolant temperature never > budges from thermostat temperature even on very hot days and long climbs. > I'm trying to figure out what accident Al is talking about. I don't > remember any accident in Wyoming, and a search of the archives turned up > nothing. Just did a search for "Evans". Al must be talking about Dave > Leonard - that was in California, in winter time! > > Perry > > ------=_Part_15766_26914020.1179289659709 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Perry, I think you are right.  Al, you must be thinking about my engine out incident.  No crash, no damage. It was a gentle touch down on a freeway.  But that is beside the point..  could have been a crash.
 
You also have your facts wrong about location.  Like Perry said, it was indeed California in winter.
 
Marginal cooling as an underlying cause is closer to the truth, but miss leading at best.
 
Did I have marginal cooling?  Well, I could outrun any 160h.p. side-by-side RV that ever flew against, even on the hottest day.  Could outrun the 180 hp RV's on cool days.  I could out climb and outrun any plane that I could afford to rent, even when heat soaked on a 110 deg day with a bubble in my cooling system..  is that marginal?  Maybe, because I wanted more....
 
by the way, according to your definition here is a short list of other planes that have marginal cooling:
Every WWII fighter from every country.
Every Cessna and Piper that I have ever flown.
 
My marginal cooling was by no real means the cause of the incident, but a series of not-so-smart decisions by the owner/pilot. 
 
In order to impress my friends, I found that pure water would allow the use of more power.  I didn't put in enough antifreeze when I went to the mountains for the weekend.  The radiator froze and developed a small crack.  I switched to Evans not to compensate for lack of cooling, but to allow me to fly home with an unpressurized cooling system (minimizing any continued leak).  However, a 7psi cap was not enough pressure, even using Evans, and all the coolant came out past the radiator cap.  Stupid Stupid cold and tired.
 
So maybe if I had unlimited cooling I might not have ever had an issue.  Then again, given my quest for power ...  I might then have chosen to convert to NitroMethane and just blown myself up...   :-)
 
In other words, in my case, you really have to blame "must impress my friends..." more than the cooling system itself.
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
www.RotaryRoster.net
 
On 5/15/07, Perry Mick <pjmick@verizon.net> wrote:
al p wick wrote:
If you guys just measure your temps as I described earlier, then all of
the successes could be copied.   

Because, heh, it's not like anybody has ever said anything about their temps on their first flight. Everybody is SO secretive with that information. You can't get anyone to tell you anything about their radiator sizes, or inlet sizes, and I've never heard anyone mention NACA ducts or external diffusion. Just a bunch of guys talking all day with no one EVER mentioning a number.

Ernest (wishing SOMEONE would tell me how well their cooling system is working)


My cooling systems works so well, that the coolant temperature never budges from thermostat temperature even on very hot days and long climbs.
I'm trying to figure out what accident Al is talking about. I don't remember any accident in Wyoming, and a search of the archives turned up nothing. Just did a search for "Evans". Al must be talking about Dave Leonard - that was in California, in winter time!

Perry




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