X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] Return-Path: Received: from web54101.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.236] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.4) with SMTP id 1738288 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:04:20 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.190.37.236; envelope-from=blueren@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 71156 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2007 16:03:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ntPcLuo7OTSfeNKEExvGDnbtG4ZU9baX4grrNSUGeDZL+6q7WZGtOX0K2JiP3HPBvbZQ7hb/i3wTWQvzmJLovaYsgO5yC1ejP43NG+Rwn7rlCN1nfcr7q8P62q549C8EAcZB5GqOAgEF3BE/bvrgWg/ovTQ6wkXiAehB30XBy9I= ; Message-ID: <20070105160317.71154.qmail@web54101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [74.93.40.46] by web54101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:03:17 PST Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:03:17 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Nadig Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ideal cooling To: Rotary motors in aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-437538906-1168012997=:69047" --0-437538906-1168012997=:69047 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am using Evans(boils at 400F) and small lines with two radiators in serie= s. The oil rad is the Mazda car rad. This is Rusty's design for the RV-3 = and it works very well. On 85 degree day on a WOT climb to 5000' the water= temp gets to 175 and oil to 185. Cruse at that altitude usually results i= n 135 to 145F. =0A =0AJump in here Rusty!=0A =0ARich=0ARV-3 13b N46AZ=0A= =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: al p wick =0ATo:= Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Friday, Ja= nuary 5, 2007 10:20:41 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ideal cooling=0A=0A=0A= On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 07:46:37 -0500 "Ed Anderson" = writes:=0ATrying to make an inadequate cooling system functional by using = a different coolant is simply not going to work, but people keep trying. I= f pure water is not doing the job, then using liquids with a lower heat spe= cific is only going to make it worst. =0A =0AThe Egg guys have been very s= uccessful using the Evans coolant. The fluid is less efficient, so it infla= tes the operating temperature. But it also brings a new very high boiling p= oint to the party. So instead of operating at the normal 200F temp, they op= erate at 215F. But the boil over temp is way up there...I forget, but somet= hing like 260F or so. As a result, they end up with greater safety margin. = A very sound decision for their installation. This because boil over is sud= den, catastrophic, and essentially irreversible. When it blows, it blows.= =0A =0ARumor has it that the same solution on your engine would not add saf= ety margin, but actually reduce it. I'm skeptical of that personally, but d= on't have facts to evaluate. It just sounds fishy that there are components= so sensitive to a mere 15F change in temp. I know how these theories can g= et started and hang around for lack of facts. So I don't know one way or th= e other, just skeptical.=0A =0ABut here's the cool thing. We tend to think = along the lines of "What can I do to improve cooling? What can I do?" But t= his Evans brings a new tool to the party. It's a great way to determine if = you have flow volume problem. If you have inadequate coolant flow, Evans dr= amatically negatively effects you cooling. I've measured, logged, and teste= d tons of cooling concepts. Deliberately overheating engine, stuff like tha= t. Tracy's data strongly suggests local boiling. (Bills? observation). Trap= ped air or low flow are leading causes. I strongly suspect low flow due to = line restrictions. I think we've got lot's of guys operating with 70% less = flow than the engine normally sees, and that puts them right on the edge of= this problem.=0A =0AFWIW.=0A =0A=0A-al wick=0ACozy IV powered by Turbo Sub= aru 3.0R with variable valve lift and cam timing. =0AArtificial intelligenc= e in cockpit, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon=0AGlass panel design,= Subaru install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info:=0Ahttp://www.maddyho= me.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html=0A=0A___________________________= _______________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has = the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com --0-437538906-1168012997=:69047 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am using Evans(boils at 400F) and small lines w= ith two radiators in series.  The oil rad is the Mazda car rad.  = This is Rusty's design for the RV-3 and it works very well.  On 85 deg= ree day on a WOT climb to 5000' the water temp gets to 175 and oil to 185.&= nbsp; Cruse at that altitude usually results in 135 to 145F. 
=0A=
 
=0A
Jump in here Rusty!
=0A
=  
=0A
Rich
=0A
RV-3 13b  N46AZ
=0A
----- Original Message ----
From: al p wick <alwi= ck@juno.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 10:20:41 AM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Ideal cooling

=0A=0A=0A
=0A
On Fri, 5= Jan 2007 07:46:37 -0500 "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t; writes:
=0A
=0A
Tr= ying to make an inadequate cooling system functional by using a different c= oolant is simply not going to work, but people keep trying.  If pure w= ater is not doing the job, then using liquids with a lower heat specific is= only going to make it worst. 
=0A 
=0A
The Egg guys have been very successful using the Evans= coolant. The fluid is less efficient, so it inflates the operating tempera= ture. But it also brings a new very high boiling point to the party. So ins= tead of operating at the normal 200F temp, they operate at 215F. But the bo= il over temp is way up there...I forget, but something like 260F or so. As = a result, they end up with greater safety margin. A very sound decision for= their installation. This because boil over is sudden, catastrophic, and es= sentially irreversible. When it blows, it blows.
=0A
 
= =0A
Rumor has it that the same solution on your engine would not add sa= fety margin, but actually reduce it. I'm skeptical of that personally, but&= nbsp;don't have facts to evaluate. It just sounds fishy that there are comp= onents so sensitive to a mere 15F change in temp. I know how these theories= can get started and hang around for lack of facts. So I don't know one way= or the other, just skeptical.
=0A
 
=0A
But here's = the cool thing. We tend to think along the lines of "What can I do to impro= ve cooling? What can I do?" But this Evans brings a new tool to the party. = It's a great way to determine if you have flow volume problem. If you have = inadequate coolant flow, Evans dramatically negatively effects you cooling.= I've measured, logged, and tested tons of cooling concepts. Deliberately o= verheating engine, stuff like that. Tracy's data strongly suggests local bo= iling. (Bills? observation). Trapped air or low flow are leading causes. I = strongly suspect low flow due to line restrictions. I think we've got lot's= of guys operating with 70% less flow than the engine normally sees, and th= at puts them right on the edge of this problem.
=0A
 
= =0A
FWIW.
=0A
 
=0A

-al wick
Cozy IV powe= red by Turbo Subaru 3.0R with variable valve lift and cam timing.
Artif= icial intelligence in cockpit, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon
G= lass panel design, Subaru install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info:http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/al= wick/index.html
=0A


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