X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Return-Path: Received: from m12.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.75] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.4) with SMTP id 1732765 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 08:59:05 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.30.75; envelope-from=alwick@juno.com Received: from m12.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m12.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABC3ZPVSAUSLT62 for (sender ); Wed, 3 Jan 2007 05:58:08 -0800 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkKZaJgbkjzMMgUZ32+oU9HkRmAZvTKCXrw== Received: (from alwick@juno.com) by m12.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MA6S4LGJ; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 05:58:05 PST To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 05:55:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 Data Logger pix Message-ID: <20070103.055519.2616.3.alwick@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.49 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_6fc3.7342.50a6 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,13-18,20,22-26,28,35,41-51,62-63,68-73,75,77-78,79-32767 From: al p wick X-ContentStamp: 20:10:3272479469 X-MAIL-INFO:5b010105d960f5bda10944054d443d94b534744419ed2145d91974341991199d71e11139018505790525d9143df98114bd6095e1157db9f564d59144e0907da595e5e0f0c04949e1edb0e1c9 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m12.lax.untd.com|alwick@juno.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_6fc3.7342.50a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brilliant Bob. I concur. The key is delay between power applied and coolant pressure change. Very little delay. That's either compression gasses leaking into coolant or local boiling. What diameter coolant hoses you running? I've seen similar results when a guy installed 3/4" diam hoses. He increased to 1" diameter and all of the symptoms disappeared. He was able to aggravate the problem by using Evans coolant...further flow restriction (thicker fluid) caused temps to skyrocket. Excellent job of gathering facts. -al wick Cozy IV powered by Turbo Subaru 3.0R with variable valve lift and cam timing. Artificial intelligence in cockpit, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 02:06:41 -0600 "Bob Perkinson" writes: My guess is that you may be experiencing nucleate boiling in the area of the C C thermal pick up. The generation of steam bubbles would tend to insulate the wall of the housing. All other indications indicate that there is heat being generated and dissipated into the coolant. It looks like if you had continued with the 17. 5 GPH fuel flow and the same RPM that the difference in the two temps would continue to be spread, until power was reduced. Looking at the water press. it looks like it was increasing in press. at about the same rate as the rad temp, peeking at 25 PSI. This translates to about 240 deg F.(sorry Dave my steam table is ceria 1957) I don't think there is any direct relationship between the rad outlet temp. and the C C temp.(This is only a guess, because there is no Holiday Inn express close by, and I am not sleeping much these days anyway) Bob Perkinson Hendersonville, TN. RV9 N658RP Reserved If nothing changes Nothing changes The real mystery is the comparisons between rad inlet temp, rad outlet temp and C.C. coolant temp (coolant temp measured right after passing both rotor combustion chambers). In a 2nd gen 13B the CC coolant temp is the hottest coolant in the engine because it normally cools slightly after passing through the cooler intake port side of the engine. This is the rad inlet temperature. As you can see, the CC temp and rad inlet temp start out the same. When the power is increased, the rad inlet temp climbs faster and higher than CC in the Renesis. I assume this is caused by the increased heat picked up from the longer exhaust ports. It is the amount that surprises me. Study the temp differentials between these three temps and see if you can see the mystery and make sense of this. The Chart is pretty crowded even after I eliminated several parameters for this jpeg but when viewing it in Excel, it is very easy to see and identify all the data. Moving the mouse pointer to any point of any parameter pops up a little tag showing what the item is and the exact digital value at that point in time. Tracy -al wick Cozy IV powered by Turbo Subaru 3.0R with variable valve lift and cam timing. Artificial intelligence in cockpit, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html ----__JNP_000_6fc3.7342.50a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brilliant Bob. I concur. The key is delay between power applied and = coolant=20 pressure change. Very little delay. That's either compression gasses = leaking=20 into coolant or local boiling. What diameter coolant hoses you running? I'= ve=20 seen similar results when a guy installed 3/4" diam hoses. He increased to = 1"=20 diameter and all of the symptoms disappeared. He was able to aggravate the= =20 problem by using Evans coolant...further flow restriction (thicker fluid) = caused=20 temps to skyrocket.
 
Excellent job of gathering facts.
 

-al wick
Cozy IV powered by Turbo Subaru 3.0R with variable = valve=20 lift and cam timing.
Artificial intelligence in cockpit, N9032U 240+ = hours=20 from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, = Glass=20 panel design info:
http:= //www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
 
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 02:06:41 -0600 "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net> writes:=
My guess is that you may be = experiencing=20 nucleate boiling in the area of the C C thermal pick up.  The = generation=20 of steam bubbles would tend to insulate the wall of the housing.  = All=20 other indications indicate that there is heat being generated and = dissipated=20 into the coolant.  It looks like if you had continued with the 17. 5= GPH=20 fuel flow and the same RPM that the difference in the two temps would = continue=20 to be spread, until power was reduced.  
Looking at the water press. it = looks like=20 it was increasing in press. at about the same rate as the rad=20 temp, peeking at 25 PSI.  This translates to about 240 deg F.(= sorry=20 Dave my steam table is ceria 1957) I don't think there is any direct=20 relationship between the rad outlet temp. and the C C temp.(This is only = a=20 guess, because there is no Holiday Inn express close by, and I am not = sleeping=20 much these days anyway)
 

Bob Perkinson
Hendersonville, TN.
RV9 N658RP Reserved
If = nothing=20 changes
Nothing changes
 

 
The real mystery is the comparisons between rad inlet temp, rad = outlet=20 temp and C.C. coolant temp (coolant temp measured right after = passing=20 both rotor combustion chambers).  In a 2nd gen 13B the CC = coolant=20 temp is the hottest coolant in the engine because it normally cools = slightly=20 after passing through the cooler intake port side of the engine.  = This=20 is the rad inlet temperature.  As you can see, the CC temp and rad= =20 inlet temp start out the same.  When the power is increased, the = rad=20 inlet temp climbs faster and higher than CC in the Renesis.  I = assume=20 this is caused by the increased heat picked up from the longer exhaust= =20 ports.  It is the amount that surprises me.  Study the temp=20 differentials between these three temps and see if you can see the = mystery=20 and make sense of this.
 
The Chart is pretty crowded even after I eliminated several = parameters=20 for this jpeg but when viewing it in Excel, it is very easy to see and= =20 identify all the data.  Moving the mouse pointer to any point of = any=20 parameter pops up a little tag showing what the item is and the exact=20 digital value at that point in time.
 
Tracy
 

-al wick
Cozy IV powered by Turbo = Subaru=20 3.0R with variable valve lift and cam timing.
Artificial intelligence = in=20 cockpit, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru= =20 install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design=20 info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
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