X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 30 [X] Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc3-s6.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.206] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.4) with ESMTP id 1727288 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:37:48 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.246.206; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.250.77]) by bay0-omc3-s6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:37:00 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:37:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.114.125 by BAY115-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:36:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.114.125] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 mixture changes Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:36:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C72CD8.48C84130" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:36:24 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Dec 2006 17:37:00.0300 (UTC) FILETIME=[46B80CC0:01C72D02] Return-Path: lors01@msn.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C72CD8.48C84130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Buly, Since you said you got a curve in the MAP table after resetting the = table, I assume you did the reset with the cold start switch up (on). = This loads the MAP table from my engine which may or may not work for = you. If the cold start switch is down, resetting the map table clears = it to a flat line at mid scale which is the normal starting point for = tuning the engine if the curve from my engine does not work well on your = installation. =20 Now the confusing part. You may not have had the cold start switch up = but if you had the injector switches off, they also activate the cold = start switch input to the EC2. =20 =20 Even more confusing, if your injector switches connect to +12 even when = the EC2 power is off, turning them on will provide power to the EC2 = through the injector lines. Explanation of why is too long to go = through so just accept this fact. This will prevent you from resetting = the MAP table at the time and way that you expect. =20 So, in order to get the expected results when doing a reset (on any EC2 = Mode) always have the injector switches on BUT make sure you master = switch is OFF, THEN turn the EC2 power on. You will now (presumably ) = still not have power to the EC2 or injectors if your master switch is = REALLY a master switch. Now you are ready to do the reset. Select = the appropriate switches & modes explained in the instructions and then = turn the master switch ON. Now the EC2 will have done the expected = reset function. =20 Note that the MAP table at the low rpm range (0 - 63) is normally flat = after the staging point or the point at which the engine is running = above the low rpm threshold (about 3000 rpm). This is because you never = really use this portion of the MAP table so it is not surprising that = your engine ran relatively OK. Above this threshold, the EC2 switches = to the high rpm table (64 - 127). Did you scroll ll the way through all = map table addresses (0 - 127)? You should have seen the curve resume = somewhere in the upper range between 64 and 127). =20 To properly understand what you are seeing in the MAP table and what it = means, there is no escape from having to read and understand the theory = of operation in the installation and setup guide. Sorry, reading that = dry, boring stuff is part of the price you pay for running an = alternative engine. =20 Tracy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bulent Aliev=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 mixture changes Hi Tracy and Al, Today I looked at the MAP table. At the beginning there 3-4 bars =20 going up from zero to 50% up after that all the way to the end there =20 was nothing. Just flat line with no bars going up and down. Reset the factory =20 settings and now I have the curves on the MAP window display the way =20 they are supposed to look like. Did not have time to run the engine. =20 I'm surprised it run at all :) Buly BulyOn Dec 29, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: > Good suggestion from Al, Buly. I can't remember, do you have an =20 > EM2? If so, check the MAP table with the EM2 and get familiar with = > what the correction curves look like for your engine (no two are =20 > exactly alike). Good idea to check it periodically for any signs =20 > of data corruption if you think something is amiss. So far, Al's =20 > controller is the only one that I know of that has had this =20 > problem. Not unit specific because it has happened on 3 different =20 > EC2s in Al's plane so I have concluded that it is something unique =20 > to his installation. I'd like to get to the bottom of it and any =20 > other reports would be helpful. > > Al and two other composite aircraft have reported mixture changes =20 > when transmitting on the radio. Sometimes the problem is frequency = > specific. I have identified a fix for this and it should be =20 > implemented on any EC2 that exhibits this problem. A .1 uF =20 > capacitor is added directly across pins 1 and 2 of the A controller = > MAP sensor to eliminate this problem (B controller is not =20 > affected). RFI problems are a bitch to find sometimes. There is = > already a capacitor across these two pins on both A & B =20 > controllers. The one on A is only a couple of inches away from the = > sensor on the circuit board but that makes all the difference. The = > part must be physically close to the sensor to eliminate this RFI =20 > problem. All future EC2s will have this added capacitor installed. > > You can experience odd changes in the EC2 behavior for several =20 > other reasons. For example, I have to change the mixture control =20 > from the normal position when I do a hot start and take off =20 > because the air temp sensor has been heat-soaked from heat in the =20 > engine room. As it cools off on takeoff, the mixture gets richer =20 > and I then return the mixture control to it's normal position. > > Tracy (autopilot installation hell almost over) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Al Gietzen > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:58 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Yet another non-event story > > > >I noticed my mixture bar was going from lean to totally > > desapearing. Turning the knob to full rich was not enough. > > I saw this a few times. > > Buly; > > It would be interesting to know if you had it previously tuned =20 > giving you > correct mixture. I have had on-going problems with spurious =20 > changes to > settings in the EC2. Carefully tune it one day, and find things = have > changed the next, and have had tuning changes occur during flight. = > I have > noted changes in the mixture table, stage point setting, injector =20 > pulse > width. Many, many hours spent trying to determine cause, but as yet = no > explanation. It has been assumed that it is specific to my =20 > installation - > composite pusher with EC control box at the firewall, EM2 =20 > acquisition module > at the firewall, display on the panel. The problem is primarily = with > controller A which communicates with the EM2. > > This may not be relevant to your installation, but it would be =20 > worth paying > close attention to getting it tuned correctly, and see if it stays =20 > that way. > > Al > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C72CD8.48C84130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Buly,

Since you said you got a curve in the = MAP table=20 after resetting the table, I assume you did the reset with the cold = start switch=20 up (on).   This loads = the MAP=20 table from my engine which may or may not work for you.  If the cold start switch is = down,  resetting the map table clears = it to a=20 flat line at mid scale which is the normal starting point for tuning the = engine=20 if the curve from my engine does not work well on your = installation.

 

Now the confusing part.  You may not have had the cold = start=20 switch up but if you had the injector switches off, they also activate = the cold=20 start switch input to the EC2. =20

 

Even more confusing, if your injector = switches=20 connect to +12 even when the EC2 power is off, turning them on will = provide=20 power to the EC2 through the injector lines.  Explanation of why is too long = to go=20 through so just accept this fact. =20  This will prevent = you from=20 resetting the MAP table at the time and way that you expect.

 

So, in order to get the expected = results when=20 doing a reset (on any EC2 Mode) =20 always have the injector switches on BUT make sure you master = switch is=20 OFF,  THEN turn the EC2 power on. =20 You will now (presumably ) still not have power to the EC2 or = injectors=20 if your master switch is REALLY a master switch.     Now you are = ready to=20 do the reset.  Select the=20 appropriate switches & modes explained in the instructions and then = turn the=20 master switch ON.   = Now the EC2=20 will have done the expected reset function.

 

Note that the MAP table at the low = rpm range (0=20 =96 63) is  normally = flat  after the staging point or the = point at=20 which the engine is running above the low rpm threshold (about 3000 = rpm).  This is because you never = really use=20 this portion of the MAP table so it is not surprising that your engine = ran=20 relatively OK.   = Above this=20 threshold, the EC2 switches to the high rpm table (64 =96 127).  = Did you=20 scroll ll the way through all map table addresses (0 - 127)?  You = should=20 have seen the curve resume somewhere in the upper range between 64 and=20 127).

 

To properly understand what you are = seeing in=20 the MAP table and what it means, there is no escape from having to read = and=20 understand the theory of operation in the installation and setup = guide.  Sorry, reading that dry, = boring stuff is=20 part of the price you pay for running an alternative engine.

 

Tracy

----- Original Message -----
From: Bulent Aliev
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Saturday, December 30, = 2006 8:09=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 = mixture=20 changes

Hi Tracy and Al,
Today I looked at the MAP table. At = the=20 beginning there 3-4 bars 
going up from zero to 50% up after = that all=20 the way to the end there 
was nothing.
Just flat line with = no bars=20 going up and down. Reset the factory 
settings and now I have = the=20 curves on the MAP window display the way 
they are supposed = to look=20 like. Did not have time to run the engine. 
I'm surprised it = run at=20 all :)
Buly

BulyOn Dec 29, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Tracy Crook=20 wrote:
> Good suggestion from Al,  Buly.  I can't = remember, do=20 you have an 
> EM2?  If so, check the MAP table with = the EM2=20 and get familiar with 
> what the correction curves look = like for=20 your engine (no two are 
> exactly alike).  Good idea = to=20 check it periodically for any signs 
> of data corruption = if you=20 think something is amiss. So far, Al's 
> controller is = the only=20 one that I know of that has had this 
> problem.  Not = unit=20 specific because it has happened on 3 different 
> EC2s in = Al's=20 plane so I have concluded that it is something unique 
> = to his=20 installation.   I'd like to get to the bottom of it and = any =20
> other reports would be helpful.
>
> Al and two = other=20 composite aircraft have reported mixture changes 
> when=20 transmitting on the radio.  Sometimes the problem is = frequency =20
> specific.  I have identified a fix for this and it = should=20 be 
> implemented on any EC2 that exhibits this = problem.  A=20 .1 uF 
> capacitor is added directly across pins 1 and 2 = of the A=20 controller 
> MAP sensor to eliminate this problem (B = controller=20 is not 
> affected).    RFI problems are a = bitch to=20 find sometimes.  There is 
> already a capacitor = across these=20 two pins on both A & B 
> controllers.  The one = on A is=20 only a couple of inches away from the 
> sensor on the = circuit=20 board but that makes all the difference.  The 
> part = must be=20 physically close to the sensor to eliminate this RFI 
>=20 problem.  All future EC2s will have this added capacitor=20 installed.
>
> You can experience odd changes in the EC2 = behavior=20 for several 
> other reasons.  For example,  I = have to=20 change the mixture control 
> from the normal position = when I do a=20 hot start and take off 
> because  the air temp = sensor has=20 been heat-soaked from heat in the 
> engine = room.   As=20 it cools off on takeoff, the mixture gets richer 
> and I = then=20 return the mixture control to it's normal position.
>
> = Tracy=20 (autopilot installation hell almost over)
>
>
> = -----=20 Original Message -----
> From: Al Gietzen
> To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:58 AM
> = Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Yet another non-event story
>
> > >I = noticed=20 my mixture bar was going from lean to totally
> > = desapearing.=20 Turning the knob to full rich was not enough.
> > I saw this = a few=20 times.
>
> Buly;
>
> It would be interesting = to know=20 if you had it previously tuned 
> giving you
> = correct=20 mixture.  I have had on-going problems with spurious  =
>=20 changes to
> settings in the EC2.  Carefully tune it one = day, and=20 find things have
> changed the next, and have had tuning changes = occur=20 during flight.  
> I have
> noted changes in = the=20 mixture table, stage point setting, injector 
> = pulse
>=20 width. Many, many hours spent trying to determine cause, but as yet = no
>=20 explanation.  It has been assumed that it is specific to my  =
> installation -
> composite pusher with EC control box = at the=20 firewall, EM2 
> acquisition module
> at the = firewall,=20 display on the panel.  The problem is primarily with
> = controller A=20 which communicates with the EM2.
>
> This may not be = relevant to=20 your installation, but it would be 
> worth paying
> = close=20 attention to getting it tuned correctly, and see if it stays  =
>=20 that way.
>
> Al
>
>
> --
>=20 Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = Archive=20 and UnSub:   http://mail.lanca= ironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>


--
Homepage: = ;=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve and=20 UnSub:   http://mail.lanca= ironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
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