X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Return-Path: Received: from x.itlnet.net ([64.19.112.9] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.4) with ESMTPS id 1726200 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 15:52:08 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.19.112.9; envelope-from=jwvoto@itlnet.net Received: from smtpav.service (email1.itlnet.net [192.168.10.156]) by x.itlnet.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id kBUKp7oN025555 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:51:08 -0600 Received: from JWVOTO (unverified [64.19.117.87]) by mail.itlnet.net (Rockliffe SMTPRA 7.0.3) with ESMTP id for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:50:41 -0600 Message-ID: <006a01c72c53$d266ab00$57751340@JWVOTO> From: "Wendell Voto" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Yet another limp home story Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:47:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01C72C21.70C8CFE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-ITLnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ITLnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-2.089, required 4, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HTML_30_40 0.37, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C72C21.70C8CFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ernest Christley=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 4:36 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Yet another limp home story James Maher wrote: > Steve, > This fuel tank has been in service for over 5 years and 18 hours = of engine operation before this occurance. > The tank has been flushed several times over the years and the = filters checked for debris. > It is only in the past year that I have started to notice the = signs of deterioration. > =20 > Ernest was on the fence about the fuel tank but now is leaning = towards aluminum I think. > The other Delta Builder who is flying with a Mazda engine has an = aluminum tank and has been flying for almost 4 years without incident. > =20 > =20 Jim, I'm definitely going aluminum. I'm working on building a form=20 right now, in the exact way that you built it for the glass layup. =20 I'll lay a sheet of metal around it and beat in a 1/4" flange. = Another=20 sheet will wrap up from one side, across the top and down the other, = cut=20 to shape and one long edge weld all the way around. When I layup the=20 turtleback, I'll set the tank in place, run a fillet of flox around = the=20 weld, then glass the weld in with about 40oz of glass tapes. There = will=20 only be a small amount of volume lost to empty space, and the load = path=20 won't change. I think it's as true to the plans as one can get = without=20 having a glass tank. > If I had used polyester or vinal ester ,as some have pointed out = this would not have been an issue as they are both impervious to auto = fuel with ethanol. > This problem has caused me to re-think my entire fuel system. > It will be better. > =20 > Jim > =20 > Steve Brooks wrote: > =20 > James, > Sorry to hear about your problem. I also have fiberglass fuel = tanks on the Cozy, but when I did them, I coated the, with a sealant = made by Jeffco, which is impervious to the various fuels out there. = Well, at least the ones they knew about back in 2002. > =20 > I was pretty careful when I built mine, on getting all of the = debris out as well, though I did check the fuel filters a couple of = times in the first 10 hours, and also replace the one on the primary = fuel every year during the conditional inspection. > =20 > I know that I saw a post earlier by Ernest, who is also building a = Delta. He was going with an aluminum tank, I believe, on his plane. > =20 > Steve Brooks=20 > =20 >Just to clarify what I have in my Cozy tanks - I looked up the = receipts and found that I used Pro-Set (not Proseal) 145 Epoxy with = Pro-Set 226 hardener. I coated the walls with at least 2 coats and also = used it to bond on the strake top (tank top) since the leading edge is = always wet with fuel (nose down parking).=20 I am considering making the sump out of aluminum. I haven't found any = fuel with alcohol to test samples.The West System epoxy pasted a year = soak in Dallas Tx. metro-mess auto fuel with no softening. On another note, I got the gauge sending unit Bob White had (30psi) = to use for water pressure and used a VDO 0-80 psi gauge and changed to = face to read 0-30 psi. It sure is hard to get those new plastic housing = gauges open. Used a drawing program from Open Office to make the new = readings and scratched to black portion of the face to allow light to = shine thru and light up the paper made letters. It is a little bit dim, = just hope it holds up - time will tell. Wendell (now to get an engine mount for the Cozy) ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C72C21.70C8CFE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ernest=20 Christley
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 = 4:36=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Yet = another limp=20 home story

James Maher wrote:
> Steve,
>   This fuel = tank has=20 been in service for over 5 years and 18 hours of engine operation = before this=20 occurance.
>   The tank has been flushed several times = over=20 the years and the filters checked for debris.
>   It = is only=20 in the past year that I have started to notice the signs of=20 deterioration.
>   
>   Ernest = was on=20 the fence about the fuel tank but now is leaning towards aluminum I=20 think.
>   The other Delta Builder who is flying with = a Mazda=20 engine has an aluminum tank and has been flying for almost 4 years = without=20 incident.
>   
>  
Jim, I'm=20 definitely going aluminum.  I'm working on building a form =
right now,=20 in the exact way that you built it for the glass = layup.   =20
I'll lay a sheet of metal around it and beat in a 1/4" = flange. =20 Another
sheet will wrap up from one side, across the top and down = the=20 other, cut
to shape and one long edge weld all the way = around.  When=20 I layup the
turtleback, I'll set the tank in place, run a fillet = of flox=20 around the
weld, then glass the weld in with about 40oz of glass=20 tapes.  There will
only be a small amount of volume lost to = empty=20 space, and the load path
won't change.  I think it's as true = to the=20 plans as one can get without
having a glass = tank.

>  =20 If I had used polyester or vinal ester ,as some have pointed out this = would=20 not have been an issue as they are both impervious to auto fuel with=20 ethanol.
>   This problem has caused me to re-think my = entire=20 fuel system.
>   It will be = better.
>  =20
> Jim
>  
> Steve Brooks <cozy4pilot@gmail.com>=20 wrote:
>        =20 =
>           = ; =20 James,
>   Sorry to hear about your problem.  I = also have=20 fiberglass fuel tanks on the Cozy, but when I did them, I coated the, = with a=20 sealant made by Jeffco, which is impervious to the various fuels out=20 there.  Well, at least the ones they knew about back in=20 2002.
>   
>   I was pretty = careful when=20 I built mine, on getting all of the debris out as well, though I did = check the=20 fuel filters a couple of times in the first 10 hours, and also replace = the one=20 on the primary fuel every year during the conditional=20 inspection.
>   
>   I know that = I saw a=20 post earlier by Ernest, who is also building a Delta.  He was = going with=20 an aluminum tank, I believe, on his plane.
>   =20
>   Steve Brooks
>    =
>Just to clarify what I have in my Cozy tanks - I = looked up the=20 receipts and found that I used Pro-Set (not Proseal) 145 Epoxy with = Pro-Set=20 226 hardener. I coated the walls with at least 2 coats and also used = it to=20 bond on the strake top (tank top) since the leading edge is=20 always wet with fuel (nose down parking). 
I am considering making the sump out of = aluminum. I=20 haven't found any fuel with alcohol to test samples.The West System = epoxy=20 pasted a year soak in Dallas Tx. metro-mess auto fuel with no=20 softening.
   On another note, I got the = gauge sending=20 unit Bob White had (30psi) to use for water pressure and used a VDO = 0-80 psi=20 gauge and changed to face to read 0-30 psi.  It sure is hard to = get those=20 new plastic housing gauges open.  Used a drawing program from = Open Office=20 to make the new readings and scratched to black portion of the face to = allow=20 light to shine thru and light up the paper made letters. It is a = little bit=20 dim, just hope it holds up - time will tell.
Wendell (now to get an engine mount for the = Cozy)
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