X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 10 [X] Return-Path: Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.3) with ESMTP id 1667891 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:19:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.92.171; envelope-from=cozy4pilot@gmail.com Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id k3so1657356ugf for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:18:28 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=RIt6K53Gu6RlcD0jroEsO7cUtb7ILKKtnT1x9c0+hhZRqXKOA17TL9BTiQSyU7zxMvvxq5cce+ysF4LOYhu6EX9nH37AcfpMjEP5kLSOvn1PHPmAVEPr3bXJ/OzSPFxiwziOA8SEYH6kN3GsE25d2zViP4omyZ7IptwlSgyXZ6s= Received: by 10.78.97.7 with SMTP id u7mr2477502hub.1165951107501; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:18:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.19.16 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:18:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7a025aa00612121118j30b203a2s992f6efeeca774b5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:18:27 -0500 From: "Stephen Brooks" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Great Flight In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_77659_32065041.1165951107101" References: ------=_Part_77659_32065041.1165951107101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Steve, I had replaced all 4 of my injectors with the RC engineering injectors. Yo= u observation is most likely very relevant to what I am seeing. I replaced the injectors due to another problem, which ended up to be a faulty fuel regulator. I may experiment later on with 2 of the original injectors in the primaries, to see if I see an improvement. For now, though, I'm not messing with it for a few months at least. Steve Brooks On 12/12/06, sboese wrote: > > Steve, > > > > As I have been accumulating time on my installation, I have been trying t= o > improve on my tuning of the fuel system also. The system could never be > tuned to be stable at any mixture setting except quite rich at any manifo= ld > pressure. I recently reached the conclusion that maybe my primary inject= ors > were not working properly which was confirmed by removing them and flow > testing them. These injectors had over 100,000 miles on them in the car= if > they hadn't been replaced somewhere along the way. The original secondar= y > injectors appeared to work fine. I obtained 2 new injectors from RC > engineering and installed them in the primary positions with the original > secondary injectors in the secondary locations. The new ones are saturat= ed > disc type injectors of 440cc flow rating as opposed to the peak and hold > pintle type originals of 460 cc flow rating. The engine could be tuned m= uch > better at higher manifold pressures but still did not idle well, in fact = the > idle was much worse. The original secondary injectors were then installe= d > in the primary locations and the new non stock injectors were installed i= n > the secondary locations. Idle was now much better at 2000 rpm but still = is > a little rough below this to 1500 rpm which is as low as was tried. Tuni= ng > at higher manifold pressures is still effective with this configuration. > > > > While tuning the system on the ground this last weekend, I recorded the > pulse widths of the activating pulses of the primary injectors under > conditions of idle to full throttle. Pulse widths of as low as 1 > millisecond were observed at idle and just above the staging manifold > pressure while pulse widths of up to slightly over 3 milliseconds were > observed just below the staging point and at full throttle. The supplier= of > the new injectors said that those injectors were not expected to operate > reliably at pulse widths less than about 1.5 milliseconds which was also > observed on the injector test stand. The original secondary injectors > worked down to about 1.2 milliseconds under the same test conditions. > The driver in the EC2 must be able to operate the injectors at lower puls= e > widths than the test stand since pulse widths less than 1.2 were observed > in the plane with the engine running quite well. It is my observation th= at > in my case at least, the injectors may be operated at the lower limit of > their useful range at idle and improvements to idle quality may be > difficult. Rich settings may be required to get the injectors working > reliably at idle. > > > > Please note that these are only my observations and in spite of the colde= r > weather here in Wyoming, I have not seen density altitudes of less than 7= 000 > feet yet so what I see may not have much bearing on what is observed in t= he > real world. Also I may just be hallucinating due to oxygen deprivation. > Tracy, of course, would be the one to consult for the best information. > > > > For what it is worth=85 > > > > Steve Boese > > 34 uneventful hours on RV6A, 13B NA, EC2, RD1A > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Steve Brooks > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:56 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Great Flight > > > > Tracey, > > You are correct. Messing with mode 3 in the air is not a good idea. Als= o > when it running good, not messing with it, is also a good idea. > > > > I guess that I just had too much time on my hands on the 190 NM trip, and > had to see if I could make it better. I've added that to my list of thin= gs > NOT to do. > > > > As far as working with a turbo, the last update that I got about 10 month= s > ago works very well, and factory default tuning isn't too far off. I hav= e > to give it about 4 clicks on mode 3 toward lean to get it in at 23 MAP an= d > 12 o'clock mixture. Lean it a little at lower power levels, and go riche= r > at higher power levels. > > > > The only thing I haven't figured out is how to get it to really idle > well. I have to run it rich to run fairly good, but it seems to run a > little rough. Leaning at idle makes it runs really well, just before it > dies. > > > > Steve Brooks > ------=_Part_77659_32065041.1165951107101 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Steve,
I had replaced all 4 of my injectors with the RC engineering injectors= .  You observation is most likely very relevant to what I am seeing.
 
I replaced the injectors due to another problem, which ended up to be = a faulty fuel regulator.  I may experiment later on with 2 of the orig= inal injectors in the primaries, to see if I see an improvement.  For = now, though, I'm not messing with it for a few months at least.
 
Steve Brooks

 
On 12/12/06, sboese <sboese@uwyo.edu> = wrote:

Steve,

 

As I have been accumulating time on= my installation, I have been trying to improve on my tuning of the fuel sy= stem also.  The system could never be tuned to be stable at any mixtur= e setting except quite rich at any manifold pressure.  I recently reac= hed the conclusion that maybe my primary injectors were not working properl= y which was confirmed by removing them and flow testing them.   T= hese injectors had over 100,000 miles on them in the car if they hadn't bee= n replaced somewhere along the way.  The original secondary injectors = appeared to work fine.  I obtained 2 new injectors from RC engineering= and installed them in the primary positions with the original secondary in= jectors in the secondary locations.  The new ones are saturated disc t= ype injectors of 440cc flow rating as opposed to the peak and hold pintle t= ype originals of 460 cc flow rating.  The engine could be tuned much b= etter at higher manifold pressures but still did not idle well, in fact the= idle was much worse.  The original secondary injectors were then inst= alled in the primary locations and the new non stock injectors were install= ed in the secondary locations.  Idle was now much better at 2000 rpm b= ut still is a little rough below this to 1500 rpm which is as low as was tr= ied.  Tuning at higher manifold pressures is still effective with this= configuration.

 

While tuning the system on the grou= nd this last weekend, I recorded the pulse widths of the activating pulses = of the primary injectors under conditions of idle to full throttle.  P= ulse widths of as low as 1 millisecond were observed at idle and just above= the staging manifold pressure while pulse widths of up to slightly over 3 = milliseconds were observed just below the staging point and at full throttl= e.  The supplier of the new injectors said that those injectors were n= ot expected to operate reliably at pulse widths less than about=20 1.5 milliseconds which was also observed on the injector test stand.  = The original secondary injectors worked down to about 1.2 milliseconds unde= r the same test conditions.   The driver in the EC2 must be able = to operate the injectors at lower pulse widths than the test stand since pu= lse widths less than=20 1.2 were observed in the plane with the engine running quite well.  It= is my observation that in my case at least, the injectors may be operated = at the lower limit of their useful range at idle and improvements to idle q= uality may be difficult.  Rich settings may be required to get the inj= ectors working reliably at idle.

 

Please note that these are only my = observations and in spite of the colder weather here in Wyoming, I have not= seen density altitudes of less than 7000 feet yet so what I see may not ha= ve much bearing on what is observed in the real world.  Also I may jus= t be hallucinating due to oxygen deprivation.  Tracy, of course, would= be the one to consult for the best information.

 

For what it is worth=85

 

Steve Boese

34 uneventful hours on RV6A, 13B NA= , EC2, RD1A

      &nbs= p;  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircra= ft [mailto: flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>] On Behalf Of Steve Bro= oks
Sent: Tuesday, December 12,= 2006 6:56 AM
To: Rotary= motors in aircraft
Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: Great Flight

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

Tracey,

You are correct.  Messing wi= th mode 3 in the air is not a good idea.  Also when it running good, n= ot messing with it, is also a good idea. =20

 

I guess that I just had too much = time on my hands on the 190 NM trip, and had to see if I could make it bett= er.  I've added that to my list of things NOT to do.

 

As far as working with a turbo, t= he last update that I got about 10 months ago works very well, and factory = default tuning isn't too far off.  I have to give it about 4 clicks on= mode 3 toward lean to get it in at 23 MAP and 12 o'clock mixture.  Le= an it a little at lower power levels, and go richer at higher power levels.

 

The only thing I haven't figured = out is how to get it to really idle well.  I have to run it rich to ru= n fairly good, but it seems to run a little rough.  Leaning at idle ma= kes it runs really well, just before it dies.

 

Steve Brooks=


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