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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 08:13:24 -0700
From: Bob White <rlwhite@comcast.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: MSD coils - Plug Fouling... again.
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On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 07:37:08 EST
Lehanover@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/7/2006 9:37:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> lors01@msn.com writes:
> 
> If the MSD coils are plug-in replacements for the stock LS1 coils they  will 
> work with the EC2 as-is.  Having said that, I doubt that they would  help with 
> flooded engine problems.  
>  
> I'm running the Renesis coils on my 20B and not having any problems so  far.  
> The LS1 coils on my 13B Renesis have performed well and I have  not had a 
> flooded engine problem in the last 9 years.
>  
> I changed my plugs to iridium type (stock Renesis parts) about 210 hours  ago 
> and they have been wonderful.  Never a hint of 'SAG' but I have run  only a 
> few tanks of 100LL during that time.
>  
> Proper priming and starting procedures are the keys to easy starting  and 
> avoidance of carbon fouling.
>  
> Tracy (sending Blue Mountain EFIS back for  updates)
> 
>  
>  
> Keep saying that to yourself.
> Proper priming and starting procedures are key to easy starting and  
> avoidance of carbon fouling.
>  
> 
> The Renesis engine does not have the self purging feature of the earlier  13B 
> with the peripheral exhaust ports. So it can be stopped cold (pun) by an  
> over rich starting attempt. It will reapply liquid fuel to the spark plugs with  
> each passing apex seal. Mazda had to re burn all of the Proms to help (but not 
>  cure) this problem. So there is a mechanical layout problem involved in the 
> hard  starting, that owners of older 13B's and 12As just have never seen or 
> had to  deal with. 
>  
> The early cars had a small container on the firewall that was filled with  
> antifreeze. When temps were cold enough, a spray of antifreeze would go into the 
>  engine during cranking to remove frost that tends to form on the surfaces 
> and  lock the seals into the rotors. This would reduce the compression to zero 
> and  make starting impossible. The antifreeze would also add volume to the 
> chamber to  increase effective compression and help seal around the stuck seals. 
>  
> In carburetted cars just pumping the gas pedal would cure this problem, and  
> the peripheral exhaust port would dump out the excess fuel and frost as each  
> apex seal went by.
>  
> Those engines had a one piece 9MM carbon apex seal, and that seal ran about  
> .004" to.005" of end clearance, so as not to bind up when it was up to  
> temperature. But that gap and some sloppy end clearance on the side seals  assured 
> that winter starting was a hit or miss project at best. 
>  
> With the modern 2 piece apex seals this is far less a problem, as the  corner 
> piece keeps the apex seal pretty much the right length (zero end  clearance) 
> all of the time, 
>  
> or it was, until the exhaust port was mounted up into the side of the irons  
> instead of on the peripheral housing where it should be.
>  
> When I first raced (I called it raced, It was just driving around fast) an  
> RX-2 Mazda with a stock junk yard engine with no compression, it could be  
> started by inserting an extra battery in the starter motor circuit to spin up  the 
> engine extra fast to shorten the leak time, or by push starting the car  in 
> first gear to do the same thing. 
>  
> We used to run a race called the Great Pumpkin up near Akron Ohio and at  
> times there would be snow on the ground. The starting problem was profound  
> indeed. I poured in a cup of hot coffee and squirted motor oil into the  carb 
> before attempting to start the engine. It drew quite a crowd and better  yet, it 
> worked every time. There was a large smoking problem for a while after  startup 
> (Like a big radial) but we got to race, and were very happy.
>  
> All of this was with the stock (Lame) points style (Kettering) ignition  
> system. We could get up to 9,000 RPM with points. Plugs were gapped to .012"  
> because secondary voltage was way down, and misfires were common with bigger  
> gaps. 
>  
> If you are having trouble starting your rotary, in cold weather, or on cool  
> humid mornings, you are in a big club. Clean and properly sized conductors in  
> the starting circuit are a must, for the highest possible cranking speed. If 
> the  engine has been overdosed with fuel, shut off the fuel and crank with the 
>  throttle full open. 
>  
> Do not do this from outside the plane.
>  
> Do this from inside the plane with feet on the brakes and full up elevator,  
> unless it is on the wrong end, in which case full down elevator. Tie the tail 
> to  a fixed object. Because the engine makes best power at full throttle, and 
> once  it blows out the excess fuel it will start from sort of a dead quiet to 
> a scream  and jump those little tiny chocks you made, and rocket down the 
> flight line into  my plane or Tracy's plane. 
>  
> In any case this works for the Renesis but it takes a good long time  because 
> of the exhaust port placement. The fuel wetted plugs will dry out if you  
> have enough battery. A clean dry set might get you going faster. A few blades  
> with no fuel at all might get some heat of compression into the cold iron parts  
> before the chilling effect of the fuel mist wets the plugs. 
>  
> Do not spray any kind of starting fluids meant to start diesels into a  
> rotary. It is conductive and shorts the plugs worse than water. WD-40 used  to work 
> great. It was an explosive fog and helped sealing as well, but they made  it 
> much safer now and it is nearly useless.
>  
> If there is to be a high energy system added to the aircraft engine, I  would 
> add it to the trailing plugs only until the system is proven with many  hours 
> of service. You can fail the trailing system and loose very little power. 
>  
> You will know immediately if you loose the leading system. 
>  
> But the high energy system would still help with starting and fuel burn,  and 
> you would still have two independent systems. 
>  
> If Tracy's system mimics the Kettering system, it is likely that it could  be 
> used to trigger an after market high energy system with no problem.  
> Otherwise, a transformer or shunt of some kind may be required to prevent damage  to 
> his system. Ask Tracy.
>  
> This advice may be worth what its costing you.
>  
> Lynn E. Hanover
>  
> 
 
Hi Lynn,

Do you know if the MSD replacements for the LS1 coils are as hot as the
real MSD systems?  I've got a set of LS6 coils that the ad on ebay said
had a higher spark voltage than MSD, but haven't tried them yet.

Bob W.


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