X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 10 [X] Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc1-s33.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.3) with ESMTP id 1646861 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 10:45:08 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.246.105; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.250.84]) by bay0-omc1-s33.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:44:46 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:44:46 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 4.174.2.187 by BAY115-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:44:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.174.2.187] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] redrive lube Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:44:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01C71923.84DDD9F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:44:34 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2006 15:44:46.0529 (UTC) FILETIME=[74C06310:01C7194D] Return-Path: lors01@msn.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C71923.84DDD9F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's my take on it Kevin. The main difference between manual & auto trans is the use of planetary = gears. This has pros & cons. Pros include higher HP rating per pound = (for planetaries) than other types due to the multiple tooth meshes = involved and no radial loads on sun and ring gears & bearings. Cons = include the fact that more gears & meshes means more heat generated (no = free lunch) so a cooler is needed. That is really the only Con I can = think of. ATF has to be optimized for the torque converter and clutches used in = auto trans. We do not need those compromises so synthetic oil is a = better lubricant for our purposes.=20 A pressurized system is needed in my drive due to the plain bearings = used in some places (as Ken W. noted) and to spray the gears from the = inside out to insure the oil gets where it needs to be. An separate oil pump and cooler would work fine and would allow an even = better choice of gear lube (George Graham is doing this) but it adds = complexity, weight and failure modes. Everything is a compromise.=20 Once again, even though there are several thousand hours of total test = time on this design, it is still an experimental device and should be = recognized as such. There would have to be at least 10 units run = through their expected TBO before they could be considered a thoroughly = tested design. This is the nature of Experimental aviation.=20 Tracy Crook, RWS ----- Original Message -----=20 From: kevin lane=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 12:39 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] redrive lube i am asking this question with only the experience back in college = years of putting a buick v-6 in a 1953 willys, no race car experience = etc...... auto transmissions have special fluid and coolers because of the = torque converters, right? manual transmissions just have gear lube, = which, it seems, you put in and basically forget about. what is = different about the PSRU redrive from a manual transmission? why can't = it be self-contained with gear lube and forgotten? are planetary gears = different from a manual transmission? are they fed with an oil flow and = coolers in trucks? i'm sure all of this has already been answered and = thought out. ken said he keeps his redrive lube separate from the dirty = engine oil. why are tracy's redrives plumbed as part of the engine oil = flow? kevin (just curious) ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C71923.84DDD9F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here's my take on it Kevin.
 
The main difference between manual & auto trans is the use of = planetary=20 gears.  This has pros & cons.  Pros include higher HP = rating per=20 pound (for planetaries) than other types due to the multiple tooth = meshes=20 involved and  no radial loads on sun and ring gears=20 & bearings.  Cons include the fact that more gears & = meshes=20 means more heat generated (no free lunch) so a cooler is = needed.  =20 That is really the only Con I can think of.
 
ATF has to be optimized for the torque converter and clutches used = in auto=20 trans.   We do not need those compromises so synthetic oil is = a better=20 lubricant for our purposes. 
 
A pressurized system is needed in my drive due to the plain = bearings used=20 in some places (as Ken W. noted) and to spray the gears from the inside = out to=20 insure the oil gets where it needs to be.
 
An separate oil pump and cooler would work fine and would = allow an=20 even better choice of gear lube (George Graham is doing this) but it = adds=20 complexity, weight and failure modes.  Everything is a=20 compromise. 
 
Once again,  even though there are several thousand hours of = total=20 test time on this design, it is still an experimental device and should = be=20 recognized as such.  There would have to be at least=20 10 units run through their expected TBO before they could be = considered a=20 thoroughly tested design.  This is the nature of Experimental=20 aviation. 
 
Tracy Crook,    RWS
----- Original Message -----
From: kevin lane
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, = 2006 12:39=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] redrive = lube

i am asking this question with only = the=20 experience back in college years of putting a buick v-6 in a 1953 = willys, no=20 race car experience etc......
 
auto transmissions have special = fluid and=20 coolers because of the torque converters, right?  manual = transmissions=20 just have gear lube, which, it seems, you put in and basically forget=20 about.  what is different about the PSRU redrive from a manual=20 transmission?  why can't it be self-contained with gear lube and=20 forgotten?  are planetary = gears=20 different from a manual transmission?  are they fed with an oil = flow and=20 coolers in trucks?  i'm sure all of this has already been = answered and=20 thought out.  ken said he keeps his redrive lube separate = from the=20 dirty engine oil.  why are tracy's redrives plumbed as part of = the engine=20 oil flow?   kevin (just=20 curious)
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