X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com ([64.233.162.206] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1154107 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:39:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.162.206; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so330791nzo for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:39:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=nX+p9QXbAIZhLTCae7i6n7lBBBrTRYNhehHbOVbLGcXDfbkHbvkzPMumsoCF+U7hQmIBfP4snjzzfSsRwZvVMnmh4ecTSbI9W+eBEeP/1pKHW8Zlnvtpx4f1QQmKrf6bM9Z6tNjVEZxxNUzOd3APvYW8QXuQdokuQecELrJ4ttM= Received: by 10.65.248.6 with SMTP id a6mr565549qbs; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.116.15 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1c23473f0606140832y2a962cbvd2c06133f682b7c4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:32:39 +0300 From: "David Leonard" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Remove Turbo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_71157_29772389.1150299159960" References: ------=_Part_71157_29772389.1150299159960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve, you are right - the turbine wheel had broken off already so I just removed it, disconnected the oil and water lines, re-routed the intake to avoid the compressor section, and then I went flying. The entire conversion took 2 hours in someone else's hangar. But I was just doing a temporary fix until I could upgrade the turbo. I flew in that configuration for about 50 hrs and had very few problems except for that my power was not up to par. I guess I was only making 130-140 h.p. The issues were: 1)low compression rotors 2)exhaust back pressure because of the turbo manifold and turbine housing 3)poor compression in one of the rotors that I never really appreciated until I installed a re-build. 3)intake resistance (peak MAP at WOT was just over 27") because the intake was not optimized nor did it have a proper pressure recovery plenum. 4)Because of all that I now had too much prop, max RPM at WOT (in flight) was about 5500, I only had 4500 for take off. I basically put it to full throttle on take off, and it never changed it. Level TAS at WOT was about 145 kts at 5K'. I have about 40 hrs on the new turbo (TO4 in a stock turbine housing) and it still looks pristine. I try to keep it under 38" but have had it up to 45. I can only cool about 28" continuously so that is a sort of normalization if you want to look at it that way. Dave Leonard On 6/14/06, Steve Brooks wrote: > > Buly, > With your engine, removing the turbo makes sense. You can probably get > enough > horsepower with the NA setup. > > In my case, with a lower compression turbo engine, I'll have to stick with > the > turbo to get enough power. > > I have about 42 hours now on my already used stock turbo, with no > problems. I > have been nursing it along though, and don't exceed 5-6 lbs of boost on > takeoff, and usually fly at 0-2 lbs of boost max. Sometimes I cruise > around > at less power than that to conserve fuel, if I'm just flying around. > > I do think that the stock turbo is going to fail, and I have all of the > parts > to convert to a T04 turbo, which appears to be the best long term turbo > solution. > > As I recall, when Dave had his turbo trouble, he gutted the turbo, and > still > used his same exhaust system. Is that what you did, or did you redo your > exhaust ? > > Steve Brooks > > > > > On Tuesday 13 June 2006 11:21 pm, Bulent Aliev wrote: > > On Jun 13, 2006, at 10:13 PM, John Slade wrote: > > > Joe, Buly > > > I think the bottom line on my "escapades" is that the stock turbo > > > just isn't up to the task. So far I have about 25 hours on my T04 > > > Turbonetics + external wastegate setup with zero problems. The > > > engine is purring very smoothly these days. Just a matter of using > > > the right tools for the job. > > > John > > > > Just came from the hangar. Managed to convert the engine to NA in 3 > > hours. Didn't run it since it was almost 11PM and I was missing one > > plug for the cooling port for the turbo. > > While doing it, I opened up John's old stock turbo that he imported > > from NZ. Many of the turbine blades were missing chunks. > > That convinced me that it was the right thing to do. At the moment > > I'm not up-to spending another 2G's for a T4 turbo after I just spent > > $2,400 for a prop. Hope I'm able to spin the prop to the static RPM > > needed? The good part is I can convert it to a 2 blade fast :) > > Buly > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > -- LCDR William Leonard Mobile FRSS C HSC HQ Unit 42135 FPO AP 96426-1235 Follow the Iraq blog at: http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY My other websites at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html ------=_Part_71157_29772389.1150299159960 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Steve, you are right - the turbine wheel had broken off already so I just removed it, disconnected the oil and water lines, re-routed the intake to avoid the compressor section, and then I went flying.  The entire conversion took 2 hours in someone else's hangar.
 
But I was just doing a temporary fix until I could upgrade the turbo.  I flew in that configuration for about 50 hrs and had very few problems except for that my power was not up to par.  I guess I was only making 130-140 h.p.   The issues were:
1)low compression rotors
2)exhaust back pressure because of the turbo manifold and turbine housing
3)poor compression in one of the rotors that I never really appreciated until I installed a re-build.
3)intake resistance (peak MAP at WOT was just over 27") because the intake was not optimized nor did it have a proper pressure recovery plenum.
4)Because of all that I now had too much prop, max RPM at WOT (in flight) was about 5500, I only had 4500 for take off.  I basically put it to full throttle on take off, and it never changed it.  Level TAS at WOT was about 145 kts at 5K'. 
 
I have about 40 hrs on the new turbo (TO4 in a stock turbine housing) and it still looks pristine.  I try to keep it under 38" but have had it up to 45. 
 
I can only cool about 28" continuously so that is a sort of normalization if you want to look at it that way.
 
Dave Leonard

 
On 6/14/06, Steve Brooks <prvt_pilot@yahoo.com> wrote:
Buly,
With your engine, removing the turbo makes sense.  You can probably get enough
horsepower with the NA setup.

In my case, with a lower compression turbo engine, I'll have to stick with the
turbo to get enough power.

I have about 42 hours now on my already used stock turbo, with no problems.  I
have been nursing it along though, and don't exceed 5-6 lbs of boost on
takeoff, and usually fly at 0-2 lbs of boost max.  Sometimes I cruise around
at less power than that to conserve fuel, if I'm just flying around.

I do think that the stock turbo is going to fail, and I have all  of the parts
to convert to a T04 turbo, which appears to be the best long term turbo
solution.

As I recall, when Dave had his turbo trouble, he gutted the turbo, and still
used his same exhaust system.  Is that what you did, or did you redo your
exhaust ?

Steve Brooks




On Tuesday 13 June 2006 11:21 pm, Bulent Aliev wrote:
> On Jun 13, 2006, at 10:13 PM, John Slade wrote:
> > Joe, Buly
> > I think the bottom line on my "escapades" is that the stock turbo
> > just isn't up to the task. So far I have about 25 hours on my T04
> > Turbonetics + external wastegate setup with zero problems. The
> > engine is purring very smoothly these days. Just a matter of using
> > the right tools for the job.
> > John
>
> Just came from the hangar. Managed to convert the engine to NA in 3
> hours. Didn't run it since it was almost 11PM and I was missing one
> plug for the cooling port for the turbo.
> While doing it, I opened up John's old stock turbo that he imported
> from NZ. Many of the turbine blades were missing chunks.
> That convinced me that it was the right thing to do. At the moment
> I'm not up-to spending another 2G's for a T4 turbo after I just spent
> $2,400 for a prop. Hope I'm able to spin the prop to the static RPM
> needed? The good part is I can convert it to a 2 blade fast :)
> Buly
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/



--
LCDR William Leonard
Mobile FRSS
C HSC HQ
Unit 42135
FPO AP 96426-1235

Follow the Iraq blog at:
http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
My other websites at:
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html ------=_Part_71157_29772389.1150299159960--