X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from m12.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.75] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with SMTP id 1149828 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:29:00 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.30.75; envelope-from=alwick@juno.com Received: from m12.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m12.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCJ2TEUA2T8HV2 for (sender ); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alwick@juno.com) by m12.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LSLMRJQN; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:27:11 PDT To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:26:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ignition Failure Message-ID: <20060611.092651.2864.1.alwick@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_2f9c.5bed.35de X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,10,13-14,18-33,35-36,39-40,42-56,58-67,69-81,88-89,94-97,104-105,107-136,137-32767 From: al p wick X-ContentStamp: 6:3:3699242614 X-MAIL-INFO:553e3e3b432ebae3fb5a373b8737cf1e232f02377f6eeb7a437f022f7f2a7f0e8fd367473e6f3b2b3b03431fcf4a3f1fe32e07d3ea17939ec74f8ec7ea0bae0b3f9afa638eaf1a73639acbf7cb4fd71ab7cb0b02030a4e2b6f432b020e3e0e8a5f5bc79e3e8e6b6ec7170fb3d7d77acefeee377beb0307477b8f4e4eaf472bba4b43e367e3cf776e8e2f33cf1f2ea73307f7aee3bb7783baf7aa8b2a331a4a0e03379f0797af2763025e636a7acada6a X-UNTD-OriginStamp: L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkBg1aSXvYkwEFO1e+UyfLzgC+/4qm4Dpqg== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m12.lax.untd.com|alwick@juno.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_2f9c.5bed.35de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You didn't see 5 specific items? You don't see any value in having ECU respond when it sees change in crank pulse rate? It normally sees 1 pulse each 100 ms, then next pulse it sees is 200 ms? 100---100---------200---100---100. If Johns ECU responded any time the engine rpm drops in half, then his risk would be greatly reduced. He would have probably gotten an alarm weeks before this failure occurred. I also provided specifics shared by one of the other posters. The design that automatically switches to ECU #2 when crank signal fails. I also provided specific solution to Eds plug fouling...the recent post regarding lead scavenger. It only takes 3 private posts telling me to leave, then I'll not post. -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 03:10:46 +0000 wschertz@comcast.net writes: Hmm, I understood Dale without any problem, let me try to clarify it for you Al, You have a tendency to talk in generalizations (and platitudes), rather than presenting a practical solution for an issue that you feel important. Some of your generalization may be well founded, but offer no insight into 'solving' the problem. Bill Schertz -------------- Original message -------------- From: al p wick What are you saying Dale? -al On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:16:15 -0700 Dale Rogers writes: At the risk of making a "me, too" posting, I'd like to thank Ed for his posting. He wrote almost exactly what I was trying to find a reasonably nice way to say. May I add that, if a person isn't on this list to advance the art of _rotary_ propulsion_, or at least improve their own knowledge therein, then their time would be better spent on whatever they do love. We don't need platitudes about how close to the trees we are flying, or generalities about this risks we are taking. We need practical ideas on how to better implement the systems necessary to keeping our aircraft aloft. As a not-too-humble example of what I'm talking about. When Tracy was bemoaning (okay, that's probably overstating the case) having to make a bump in his cowl to clear the oil filter. I went out to the shop and designed a whole new filter mount that put the filter out of the way, without the need to add extra plumbing for a remote filter. (Unfortunately, my first iteration wasn't a "universal" solution, so my adapter block has been a much better seller.) Platitudes don't solve problems - it takes practical ideas. Dale R. COZY MkIV #1254 Ed Anderson wrote: ... However, these postings have sometimes been taken out of context, misunderstood or misconstrued by others in ways not always accurate and sometimes in a clear attempt to put down either the individual, the motor, the technique, etc, - which is not always pleasing. But, I won't let that deter me for posting, I feel I have done my part by raising the issue for others to consider. Sometimes, I find out from others that my incident may have a possible cause I had not considered. Clearly, if a list is not encouraging individuals to post their incidents - no matter how embarrassing it may be (I have a quite a few in that category) - or otherwise not keeping the discussion professional and in a "problem solving" mode, then fewer individuals will post - to the detriment of us all. ... I don't think taking issue with a posting - if it contains inaccuracies, or appears out of context, or is intentionally misconstrued is necessarily defensive - just a matter of setting the record straight so that others will have a clear and accurate picture of what happened. Also, lets face it, e mails are certainly lacking as a communication medium, just too many way to read something - drawing incorrect inferences that were unintended. In any case, lets all agree to keep posting our incidents - it may save someone's bacon. Best Regards Ed -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html ----__JNP_000_2f9c.5bed.35de Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You didn't see 5 specific items? You don't see any value in having ECU= =20 respond when it sees change in crank pulse rate? It normally sees 1 pulse = each=20 100 ms, then next pulse it sees is 200 ms?=20 100---100---------200---100---100.
If Johns ECU responded any time the engine rpm drops in half, then his= risk=20 would be greatly reduced. He would have probably gotten an alarm weeks = before=20 this failure occurred.
 
I also provided specifics shared by one of the other posters.=20 The design that automatically switches to ECU #2 when crank signal = fails.=20  I also provided specific solution to Eds plug fouling...the recent = post=20 regarding lead scavenger.
 
It only takes 3 private posts telling me to leave, then I'll not post.= =20
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by= =20 stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland,=20 Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel = design=20 info:
http:= //www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
 
 
 
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 03:10:46 +0000 wschertz@comcast.net writes:
Hmm,
I understood Dale without any problem, let me try to clarify it for = you=20 Al,
 
You have a tendency to talk in generalizations (and platitudes), = rather=20 than presenting a practical solution for an issue that you feel important= .=20
 
Some of your generalization may be well founded, but offer no = insight=20 into 'solving' the problem.
 
Bill Schertz
--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: al p wick <alwick@juno.com= >=20
What are you saying Dale?
 
-al
 
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:16:15 -0700 Dale Rogers <dale.r@cox.net> writes:
At the risk of making a "me, too" posting, I'd like to thank Ed = for=20 his
posting.  He wrote almost exactly what I was trying to = find a=20 reasonably
nice way to say.

May I add that, if a person = isn't=20 on this list to advance the art of _rotary_
propulsion_, or at = least=20 improve their own knowledge therein, then their
time would be = better=20 spent on whatever they do love.  We don't need
platitudes = about=20 how close to the trees we are flying, or generalities
about this = risks=20 we are taking.  We need practical ideas on how to
better=20 implement the systems necessary to keeping our aircraft aloft. = =20

As a not-too-humble example of what I'm talking about.  = When=20 Tracy
was bemoaning (okay, that's probably overstating the case)= =20 having to
make a bump in his cowl to clear the oil filter.  = I=20 went out to the shop
and designed a whole new filter mount that = put=20 the filter out of the way,
without the need to add extra plumbing= for=20 a remote filter. 
(Unfortunately, my first iteration wasn't = a=20 "universal" solution, so my
adapter block has been a much better= =20 seller.) 

Platitudes don't solve problems - it takes=20 practical ideas.

Dale R.
COZY MkIV #1254


Ed = Anderson=20 wrote: 
...
However, these postings have sometimes been taken out of context, =
misunderstood or misconstrued by others in ways not always accurate and =
sometimes in a clear attempt to put down either the individual, the motor, =
the technique, etc,  - which is not always pleasing.   But, I won't  let =
that deter me for posting, I feel I have done my part by raising the issue =
for others to consider.  Sometimes, I find out from others  that my =
incident may have a possible cause I had not considered.

Clearly, if a list is not encouraging individuals to post their incidents -=
 no matter how embarrassing it may be (I have a quite a few in that =
category) - or otherwise not keeping the discussion professional and in a "=
problem solving" mode, then fewer individuals will post - to the detriment =
of us all. =20

...

I don't think taking issue with a posting - if it contains inaccuracies, or=
 appears out of context, or is intentionally misconstrued is necessarily =
defensive - just a matter of setting the record straight so that others =
will have a clear and accurate picture of what happened.  Also, lets face =
it, e mails are certainly lacking as a communication medium, just too many =
way to read something - drawing incorrect inferences that were unintended.

In any case, lets all agree to keep posting our incidents - it may save =
someone's bacon.

Best Regards

Ed

  

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence= in=20 cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on=20 engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install= ,=20 Risk assessment, Glass panel design=20 info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html<= BR>
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence in= =20 cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on=20 engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, = Risk=20 assessment, Glass panel design=20 info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
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