X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-04.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.103] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1146137 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 08 Jun 2006 09:18:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.103; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-111-186.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.111.186]) by ms-smtp-04.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k58DHPhO014703 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001701c68afd$eafd36e0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: FWD: Latest on lead scavenger Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:17:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C68ADC.63A1BCA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C68ADC.63A1BCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No and Yes. Just one of those things that I have not gotten around to. Been busy = designing hangar door and now about ready to start fabricating it, so = all airplane related projects have gotten no where this year. Hopefully = after the door, I can return to the fun stuff. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FWD: Latest on lead scavenger Ed, Did you ever follow up on your plug restoration experiments? You = should have tons of used plugs to experiment on by now. =20 Mark S. =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:12 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FWD: Latest on lead scavenger =20 Thanks, Al. =20 Certainly very interesting and hopefully promising development. I did = not notice anything specific in the abstract regarding plug fouling. = He mentions deposits but not spark plugs specifically. Also, If I = understood the post correctly he was using an air cooled engine which = probably means the CHT are higher than the rotary. I get no detectable = lead deposits on any part of the rotary engine - except the ceramic cone = of the sparkplug. =20 In my research, I found a study that pointed out that for TCP to work = properly in preventing plug fouling from lead, that the CHT had to be = 350F or above - generally meaning air cooled cylinder heads. This may = be a factor in how well it would work (or not) in a rotary engine. =20 =20 I am definitely interested - if any thing regarding plug fouling = per-se shows up please post it, if you would =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: al p wick=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] FWD: Latest on lead scavenger =20 Got this from another newsgroup. Could be the answer to Rotary plug = fouling when using 100LL exclusively. Use care though, new stuff often = has unexpected outcomes. You know?=20 -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru = 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design = info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html =20 As promised, I'm reporting back on fuel additives. I have spent a lot of time over the last six months researching most = of the additives used as ingredients in fuel additives and quite a bit = of time doing engine testing. I used an air cooled, low compression, = fixed timing magneto ignition engine for tests. I removed the cylinder = head after each test and took digital pictures of the head, piston and = plug. I only used 100LL as fuel. Here are my results; on some things I can't get too specific because = they have become proprietary.=20 Starting at the simplest additives, here are the ingredients of = Marvel Mystery Oil. I shall call it MMO as an abbreviation. Hydrotreated naphthenic oil Paraffin oil Oil of Wintergreen (methyl salicylate) Red dye This stuff was invented, as the bottle claims, in 1923. Back then = engines were rather primitive and so it this mixture. The active = ingredient is the naphthenic oil; the rest is just for dilution or to = confuse the opposition. Naphthenic oil was used originally as a low = cost "once through" oil in IC engines or compressors with either no = recirculating oil system or a poorly operating one. The oil has = marginal oxidation resistance so it is rapidly degraded and can only be = used in once through systems. In my engine testing it left the combustion chamber looking sooty. = Subaru engines operate hotter so it probably burns off this soot, so = this is probably less of an issue. The best benefit that could be = obtained is valve guide lubrication and upper cylinder lubrication. At = 4 ounces per ten gallons it is not very economical. Next in line is a whole slew of solvent based brews used as clean up = additives. These use toluene, xylene, trimethyl benzene diluted with = paraffin oil and solvent naphtha. Simple amines are used sometimes, as = in Redex. In engine testing these tended to clean up the inlet valve and fuel = injectors, but it was a slow process. TCP additives evolved from this type of formulation. Tricresyl = phosphate was diluted with toluene to make Alcor TCP. This is used to = alleviate lead contamination of spark plugs and exhaust valve seat = recession due to the presence of lead in leaded fuels. Decalin TCP does not use toluene, it uses ethylene glycol as a = diluent which is far less volatile and so it is safer to use both from a = toxicological standpoint and carrying it in the cockpit. In my engine testing, a high dosage of Decalin TCP tended to leave = yellowish deposits of lead phosphate in the combustion chamber and on = the exhaust valve. At the recommended level of =BD ounce per 20 gallons = for Subaru's the deposits were negligible. The next generation of fuel additives took a quantum leap in = performance with the addition of polyetheramines. This was patented by = Chevron in the mid 1980's, but the patent expired three years ago. = Since that time there has been an explosion of products containing this = additive. I had a lot of trouble getting hold of the raw material = polyetheramine since the manufacturers are picky about who they sell it = to; but finally, in the interest of bringing you the very latest stuff I = persevered (walking ten miles into the wind through three feet of snow = uphill both ways, bring on the violins) and then I put it to the test. I first "dirtied up" the engine by using a high dosage of MMO. =20 Then I added a bit of polyetheramine concentrate to the fuel tank = and ran the experiment again. The effect was remarkable. The = combustion chamber and piston were very much cleaner. I could not = believe it and ran the test again. I then ran a whole series of tests, comparing and mixing with = Decalin TCP, MMO and other fuel additive brews that I bought at the auto = store. I used a great many head gaskets in this testing and the local = supplier must be wondering what I'm up to. The bottom line is that I am reformulating Decalin TCP to include = polyetheramine. This will make it a super product and I will call it = Decalin TCP Plus. The price remains the same. Also, I will bring out a separate product called Decalin DeeCoke for = combustion chamber, fuel injector, inlet valve and inlet manifold = cleanup. This stuff is so good that you only have to use it once every = 50 hours by dosing at 5 ounces per 10 gallons. It will be in a 16 ounce = bottle, priced at $11.95. You can use it at a maintenance level of =BD ounce per 10 gallons at = fill up and then you would not need the 50 hour dose. High dosage has = no detrimental effect on the engine that I could see, and other = manufacturers report the same thing. The ingredient is on the EPA list = of approved fuel additives. It can be used in cars also. It will be a couple of weeks or so before I can get bulk supplies = delivered to make these new products, but if you are interested in this = product please let me know. Chris Lowery ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C68ADC.63A1BCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No and Yes.
 
Just one of those things that I have not gotten = around=20 to.  Been busy designing hangar door and now about ready to start=20 fabricating it, so all airplane related projects have gotten no where = this=20 year.  Hopefully after the door, I can return to the fun=20 stuff.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark R Steitle =
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 = 8:42=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FWD: = Latest on=20 lead scavenger

Ed,

Did you = ever follow=20 up on your plug restoration experiments?  You should have tons of = used=20 plugs to experiment on by now.

 

Mark=20 S.

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 = 7:12=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FWD: = Latest on=20 lead scavenger

 

Thanks,=20 Al.

 

Certainly very = interesting and=20 hopefully promising development.  I did not notice anything = specific=20 in the abstract  regarding plug fouling.  He mentions = deposits but=20 not spark plugs specifically.   Also, If I understood the = post=20 correctly he was using an air cooled engine which probably means the = CHT are=20 higher than the rotary.  I get no detectable lead deposits on any = part of=20 the rotary engine - except the ceramic cone of the=20 sparkplug.

 

In my research, I found = a study=20 that pointed out that for TCP to work properly in preventing plug = fouling from=20 lead, that the CHT had to be 350F or above - generally meaning air = cooled=20 cylinder heads.  This may be a factor in how well it would work = (or not)=20 in a rotary engine. 

 

I am definitely = interested - if=20 any thing regarding plug fouling per-se shows up please post it, if = you=20 would

 

Ed

 

Ed Anderson
Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: al p = wick=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Wednesday, June 07, 2006 2:11 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] FWD: Latest on lead = scavenger

 

Got this from=20 another newsgroup. Could be the answer to Rotary plug fouling when = using=20 100LL exclusively. Use care though, new stuff often has unexpected = outcomes.=20 You know? 


-al=20 wick
Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock = Subaru=20 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru = install,=20 Risk assessment, Glass panel design info:
htt= p://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html<= /SPAN>

 

As = promised, I=92m=20 reporting back on fuel additives.

I = have spent a=20 lot of time over the last six months researching most of the = additives used=20 as ingredients in fuel additives and quite a bit of time doing = engine=20 testing.  I used an air cooled, low compression, fixed timing = magneto=20 ignition engine for tests.  I removed the cylinder head after = each test=20 and took digital pictures of the head, piston and plug.  I only = used=20 100LL as fuel.

Here are my=20 results; on some things I can=92t get too specific because they have = become=20 proprietary.

Starting at=20 the simplest additives, here are the ingredients of Marvel Mystery=20 Oil.  I shall call it MMO as an=20 abbreviation.

Hydrotreated=20 naphthenic oil

Paraffin=20 oil

Oil of=20 Wintergreen (methyl salicylate)

Red=20 dye

This stuff=20 was invented, as the bottle claims, in 1923.  Back then engines = were=20 rather primitive and so it this mixture.  The active ingredient = is the=20 naphthenic oil; the rest is just for dilution or to confuse the=20 opposition.  Naphthenic oil was used originally as a low cost = =93once=20 through=94 oil in IC engines or compressors with either no = recirculating oil=20 system or a poorly operating one.  The oil has marginal = oxidation=20 resistance so it is rapidly degraded and can only be used in once = through=20 systems.

In my engine=20 testing it left the combustion chamber looking sooty.  Subaru = engines=20 operate hotter so it probably burns off this soot, so this is = probably less=20 of an issue.  The best benefit that could be obtained is valve = guide=20 lubrication and upper cylinder lubrication.  At 4 ounces per = ten=20 gallons it is not very economical.

Next in line=20 is a whole slew of solvent based brews used as clean up = additives. =20 These use toluene, xylene, trimethyl benzene diluted with paraffin = oil and=20 solvent naphtha.  Simple amines are used sometimes, as in=20 Redex.

In engine=20 testing these tended to clean up the inlet valve and fuel injectors, = but it=20 was a slow process.

TCP=20 additives evolved from this type of formulation.  Tricresyl = phosphate=20 was diluted with toluene to make Alcor TCP.  This is used to = alleviate=20 lead contamination of spark plugs and exhaust valve seat recession = due to=20 the presence of lead in leaded fuels.

Decalin TCP does=20 not use toluene, it uses ethylene glycol as a diluent which is far = less=20 volatile and so it is safer to use both from a toxicological = standpoint and=20 carrying it in the cockpit.

In my engine=20 testing, a high dosage of Decalin TCP tended to leave yellowish = deposits of=20 lead phosphate in the combustion chamber and on the exhaust = valve.  At=20 the recommended level of =BD ounce per 20 gallons for Subaru=92s the = deposits=20 were negligible.

The next=20 generation of fuel additives took a quantum leap in performance with = the=20 addition of polyetheramines.  This was patented by Chevron in = the mid=20 1980=92s, but the patent expired three years ago.  Since that = time there=20 has been an explosion of products containing this=20 additive.

I had a lot=20 of trouble getting hold of the raw material polyetheramine since the = manufacturers are picky about who they sell it to; but finally, in = the=20 interest of bringing you the very latest stuff I persevered (walking = ten=20 miles into the wind through three feet of snow uphill both ways, = bring on=20 the violins) and then I put it to the = test.

I first=20 =93dirtied up=94 the engine by using a high dosage of MMO. =20

Then I added a=20 bit of polyetheramine concentrate to the fuel tank and ran the = experiment=20 again.  The effect was remarkable.  The combustion chamber = and=20 piston were very much cleaner.  I could not believe it and = ran the=20 test again.

I then ran a=20 whole series of tests, comparing and mixing with Decalin TCP, MMO = and other=20 fuel additive brews that I bought at the auto=20 store.

I used a=20 great many head gaskets in this testing and the local supplier must = be=20 wondering what I=92m up to.

The bottom=20 line is that I am reformulating Decalin TCP to include = polyetheramine. =20 This will make it a super product and I will call it Decalin TCP = Plus. =20 The price remains the same.

Also, I will=20 bring out a separate product called Decalin DeeCoke for combustion = chamber,=20 fuel injector, inlet valve and inlet manifold cleanup.  This = stuff is=20 so good that you only have to use it once every 50 hours by dosing = at 5=20 ounces per 10 gallons.  It will be in a 16 ounce bottle, priced = at=20 $11.95.

You can use it=20 at a maintenance level of =BD ounce per 10 gallons at fill up and = then you=20 would not need the 50 hour dose.   High dosage has no = detrimental=20 effect on the engine that I could see, and other manufacturers = report the=20 same thing.  The ingredient is on the EPA list of approved fuel = additives.  It can be used in cars = also.

It will be a=20 couple of weeks or so before I can get bulk supplies delivered to = make these=20 new products, but if you are interested in this product please let = me=20 know.

Chris=20 = Lowery

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