X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.186] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPS id 1145421 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:19:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.186; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d58-104-142-107.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [58.104.142.107]) by mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id k57MIs8o017475 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:18:58 +1000 Message-ID: <001501c6a601$3f630570$6b8e683a@george> From: "george lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: OT: Concrete forms Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:19:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6A655.0FE53B70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6A655.0FE53B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, They should be anchored with reinforcing bars that come out of = the foundations/ slab. George ( down under) Why not pour them laying down, and then stand them up with a rented = hoist/crane? Bill Schertz -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: Jarrett & Heidi Johnson =20 > Finn, I have designed concrete forms in my day=20 > job, however they were of a different variety=20 > compared to what your doing.=20 > [Metal pre-cast forms for man holes, city sew=20 > systems and various "under Street" concrete=20 > structures]=20 >=20 > It would seem to me that your major problem is=20 > going to be hydraulic pressure at the bottom of=20 > the form.=20 > If concrete weigh's 150lb's per cubic foot 16" x=20 > 16" x 104"=3D26624/1728=3D15.4 cubic feet or 2311 lb's=20 > of concrete.=20 > Now if my numbers are right you should be dealing=20 > w/ 9.0 PSI pressure around the form at 1"=20 > elevation.=20 > I don't think just plywood is going to cut it..=20 > if you strapped the bottom circ. w / 2 x 4 and=20 > then the following elevations=20 > [ all measured from Datum=3D bottom of colum]=20 >=20 > 3"=20 > 6"=20 > 9"=20 > 12"=20 > 15"=20 > 18"=20 > 21"=20 > 25"=20 > 29"=20 > 33"=20 > 37"=20 > 42"=20 > 47"=20 > 52"=20 > 58"=20 > 64"=20 > 72"=20 > 82"=20 > 104"=20 >=20 > All elevations should be strapped by a 2 x 4 [23"=20 > lng + 2x plywood thickness]around the circ. [2"=20 > high x 4" out from the form]=20 >=20 > These numbers should keep all loads below 500lb's=20 > force on the 2x4 strapping at each elevation[at=20 > each side]. Hydaulic pressure isn't my strong=20 > suite [ I'm a draftsman not an engineer]=20 > Hopefully someone will look this over and tell me=20 > I'm an idiot.. but.. If I was going to do it..=20 > this is how I'd go about it....=20 > Also worth noting, if you do taper tha colum, make=20 > sure you secure the bottom of it to the floor or=20 > it will float off.. and all your concrete=20 > will come spilling out the bottom [ don't ask my=20 > how I know this!]=20 > Actually regardless how you do it.. it would be=20 > worth adding a couple concrete nails at the bottom=20 > to make sure it doesn't float.. a non-tapered=20 > colum form could float also..=20 >=20 > Jarrett Johnson.. [wondering how desperate Finn is=20 > to use/ my numbers now... :-) ]=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Finn Lassen"=20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:40 PM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] OT: Concrete forms=20 >=20 >=20 > > This is only remotely related to rotaries (home=20 > > of my future=20 > > rotary-powered RV-4) so please reply off-list.=20 > >=20 > > After having worked for three weekends putting=20 > > up block and only having=20 > > done 1 1/2 corners out of 3 so far, I'm=20 > > seriously considering building=20 > > forms and having the 9 16x16" columns poured=20 > > rather that building them=20 > > up with 16x16" column blocks.=20 > >=20 > > If anybody here on the list are familiar with=20 > > making concrete forms, I=20 > > sure could use some advice.=20 > > Columns will be 8' 8" tall and will be=20 > > supporting 10' long 8x8" lintels=20 > > with a row of lintel blocks on top.=20 > >=20 > > How thick does the plywood have to be to handle=20 > > a 8'8" tall 16x16"=20 > > column of concrete?=20 > >=20 > > I'm considering using my future 2x4 or 2x6 frame=20 > > wall studs to form the=20 > > outside corners of the forms - two along each=20 > > corner of the form screwed=20 > > together (8 per form).=20 > >=20 > > Another issue is the option of tapering the=20 > > columns: 16x16 at bottom=20 > > tapering to 8x16" at top. In my mind that would=20 > > not change the structual=20 > > strength of the columns; would save concrete=20 > > (25%) and possibly require=20 > > less hefty plywood.=20 > >=20 > > I sure could use some advice on both counts.=20 > >=20 > > Keywords here are "cheaper" and "easier".=20 > >=20 > > 16x16" column blocks are now $3.21 a piece - 13=20 > > per column.=20 > > The extra concrete to replace one block is about=20 > > $2.60 (or $1.95 if=20 > > tapering the columns).=20 > > So I'd mainly just be paying for the plywood=20 > > for the forms - seems=20 > > worthwhile compared to the work of "stacking"=20 > > the 117 column blocks.=20 > > Ideally the forms wo uld also be able to support=20 > > the lintels and lintel=20 > > blocks so everything could be poured in one go.=20 > >=20 > > Finn=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------=20 >=20 >=20 > > --=20 > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > > Archive and UnSub:=20 > > http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------=20 >=20 >=20 > No virus found in this incoming message.=20 > Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/356 -=20 > Release Date: 6/5/2006=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6A655.0FE53B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Bill, They should be anchored = with=20 reinforcing bars that come out of the foundations/ slab.
George ( down under)
Why not pour them laying down, and then stand them  up with = a rented=20 hoist/crane?
Bill Schertz
 
--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: Jarrett & Heidi = Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>=20

> Finn, I have designed concrete forms in my day
> = job,=20 however they were of a different variety
> compared to what = your=20 doing.
> [Metal pre-cast forms for man holes, city sew =
>=20 systems and various "under Street" concrete
> structures] =
>=20
> It would seem to me that your major problem is
> = going to be=20 hydraulic pressure at the bottom of
> the form.
> If = concrete=20 weigh's 150lb's per cubic foot 16" x
> 16" x = 104"=3D26624/1728=3D15.4=20 cubic feet or 2311 lb's
> of concrete.
> Now if my = numbers are=20 right you should be dealing
> w/ 9.0 PSI pressure around the = form at=20 1"
> elevation.
> I don't think just plywood is going = to cut=20 it..
> if you strapped the bottom circ. w / 2 x 4 and =
> then=20 the following elevations
> [ all measured from Datum=3D = bottom of=20 colum]
>
> 3"
> 6"
> 9"
> 12" =
>=20 15"
> 18"
> 21"
> 25"
> 29"
> 33" =
> 37"
> 42"
> 47"
> 52"
> 58" =
>=20 64"
> 72"
> 82"
> 104"
>
> All = elevations=20 should be strapped by a 2 x 4 [23"
> lng + 2x plywood=20 thickness]around the circ. [2"
> high x 4" out from the form] =
>
> These numbers should keep all loads below 500lb's =
>=20 force on the 2x4 strapping at each elevation[at
> each side]. = Hydaulic pressure isn't my strong
> suite [ I'm a draftsman = not an=20 engineer]
> Hopefully someone will look this over and tell me =
> I'm an idiot.. but.. If I was going to do it..
> = this is how=20 I'd go about it....
> Also worth noting, if you do taper tha = colum,=20 make
> sure you secure the bottom of it to the floor or =
> it=20 will float off.. and all your concrete
> will come spilling = out the=20 bottom [ don't ask my
> how I know this!]
> Actually=20 regardless how you do it.. it would be
> worth adding a = couple=20 concrete nails at the bottom
> to make sure it doesn't = float.. a=20 non-tapered
> colum form could float also..
>
> = Jarrett=20 Johnson.. [wondering how desperate Finn is
> to use/ my = numbers=20 now... :-) ]
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>=20
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Finn Lassen"=20
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =
>=20
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 = 9:40 PM=20
> Subject: [FlyRotary] OT: Concrete forms
>
> =
>=20 > This is only remotely related to rotaries (home
> > = of my=20 future
> > rotary-powered RV-4) so please reply off-list. =
>=20 >
> > After having worked for three weekends putting =
>=20 > up block and only having
> > done 1 1/2 corners out = of 3 so=20 far, I'm
> > seriously considering building
> > = forms=20 and having the 9 16x16" columns poured
> > rather that = building=20 them
> > up with 16x16" column blocks.
> > =
> >=20 If anybody here on the list are familiar with
> > making = concrete=20 forms, I
> > sure could use some advice.
> > = Columns=20 will be 8' 8" tall and will be
> > supporting 10' long = 8x8"=20 lintels
> > with a row of lintel blocks on top.
> = >=20
> > How thick does the plywood have to be to handle =
> >=20 a 8'8" tall 16x16"
> > column of concrete?
> > =
>=20 > I'm considering using my future 2x4 or 2x6 frame
> > = wall=20 studs to form the
> > outside corners of the forms - two = along=20 each
> > corner of the form screwed
> > together = (8 per=20 form).
> >
> > Another issue is the option of = tapering=20 the
> > columns: 16x16 at bottom
> > tapering to = 8x16"=20 at top. In my mind that would
> > not change the structual =
> > strength of the columns; would save concrete
> = >=20 (25%) and possibly require
> > less hefty plywood. =
> >=20
> > I sure could use some advice on both counts.
> = >=20
> > Keywords here are "cheaper" and "easier".
> = >=20
> > 16x16" column blocks are now $3.21 a piece - 13 =
> >=20 per column.
> > The extra concrete to replace one block is = about=20
> > $2.60 (or $1.95 if
> > tapering the = columns).=20
> > So I'd mainly just be paying for the plywood
> = > for=20 the forms - seems
> > worthwhile compared to the work of=20 "stacking"
> > the 117 column blocks.
> > = Ideally the=20 forms wo uld also be able to support
> > the lintels and = lintel=20
> > blocks so everything could be poured in one go. =
> >=20
> > Finn
> >
>
>
>=20 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------=20
>
>
> > --
> > Homepage:=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:
> = >=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
> > =
>=20
>
>=20 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------=20
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message. =
>=20 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus = Database:=20 268.8.2/356 -
> Release Date: 6/5/2006
>
> =
> --=20
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and = UnSub:=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/=20
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