X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.192.81] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1144623 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 09:30:29 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.192.81; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from rmailcenter05.comcast.net ([204.127.197.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060607132942m1100jouc5e>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:29:42 +0000 Received: from [24.7.194.200] by rmailcenter05.comcast.net; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:29:40 +0000 From: wschertz@comcast.net To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: OT: Concrete forms Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:29:40 +0000 Message-Id: <060720061329.386.4486D4C4000A2E05000001822200735834969B9D0A080C9C99@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: d3NjaGVydHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_386_1149686980_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_386_1149686980_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why not pour them laying down, and then stand them up with a rented hoist/crane? Bill Schertz -------------- Original message -------------- From: Jarrett & Heidi Johnson > Finn, I have designed concrete forms in my day > job, however they were of a different variety > compared to what your doing. > [Metal pre-cast forms for man holes, city sew > systems and various "under Street" concrete > structures] > > It would seem to me that your major problem is > going to be hydraulic pressure at the bottom of > the form. > If concrete weigh's 150lb's per cubic foot 16" x > 16" x 104"=26624/1728=15.4 cubic feet or 2311 lb's > of concrete. > Now if my numbers are right you should be dealing > w/ 9.0 PSI pressure around the form at 1" > elevation. > I don't think just plywood is going to cut it.. > if you strapped the bottom circ. w/ 2 x 4 and > then the following elevations > [ all measured from Datum= bottom of colum] > > 3" > 6" > 9" > 12" > 15" > 18" > 21" > 25" > 29" > 33" > 37" > 42" > 47" > 52" > 58" > 64" > 72" > 82" > 104" > > All elevations should be strapped by a 2 x 4 [23" > lng + 2x plywood thickness]around the circ. [2" > high x 4" out from the form] > > These numbers should keep all loads below 500lb's > force on the 2x4 strapping at each elevation[at > each side]. Hydaulic pressure isn't my strong > suite [ I'm a draftsman not an engineer] > Hopefully someone will look this over and tell me > I'm an idiot.. but.. If I was going to do it.. > this is how I'd go about it.... > Also worth noting, if you do taper tha colum, make > sure you secure the bottom of it to the floor or > it will float off.. and all your concrete > will come spilling out the bottom [ don't ask my > how I know this!] > Actually regardless how you do it.. it would be > worth adding a couple concrete nails at the bottom > to make sure it doesn't float.. a non-tapered > colum form could float also.. > > Jarrett Johnson.. [wondering how desperate Finn is > to use/ my numbers now... :-) ] > > > > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Finn Lassen" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:40 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] OT: Concrete forms > > > > This is only remotely related to rotaries (home > > of my future > > rotary-powered RV-4) so please reply off-list. > > > > After having worked for three weekends putting > > up block and only having > > done 1 1/2 corners out of 3 so far, I'm > > seriously considering building > > forms and having the 9 16x16" columns poured > > rather that building them > > up with 16x16" column blocks. > > > > If anybody here on the list are familiar with > > making concrete forms, I > > sure could use some advice. > > Columns will be 8' 8" tall and will be > > supporting 10' long 8x8" lintels > > with a row of lintel blocks on top. > > > > How thick does the plywood have to be to handle > > a 8'8" tall 16x16" > > column of concrete? > > > > I'm considering using my future 2x4 or 2x6 frame > > wall studs to form the > > outside corners of the forms - two along each > > corner of the form screwed > > together (8 per form). > > > > Another issue is the option of tapering the > > columns: 16x16 at bottom > > tapering to 8x16" at top. In my mind that would > > not change the structual > > strength of the columns; would save concrete > > (25%) and possibly require > > less hefty plywood. > > > > I sure could use some advice on both counts. > > > > Keywords here are "cheaper" and "easier". > > > > 16x16" column blocks are now $3.21 a piece - 13 > > per column. > > The extra concrete to replace one block is about > > $2.60 (or $1.95 if > > tapering the columns). > > So I'd mainly just be paying for the plywood > > for the forms - seems > > worthwhile compared to the work of "stacking" > > the 117 column blocks. > > Ideally the forms would also be able to support > > the lintels and lintel > > blocks so everything could be poured in one go. > > > > Finn > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > > http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/356 - > Release Date: 6/5/2006 > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_386_1149686980_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Why not pour them laying down, and then stand them  up with a rented hoist/crane?
Bill Schertz
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jarrett & Heidi Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>

> Finn, I have designed concrete forms in my day
> job, however they were of a different variety
> compared to what your doing.
> [Metal pre-cast forms for man holes, city sew
> systems and various "under Street" concrete
> structures]
>
> It would seem to me that your major problem is
> going to be hydraulic pressure at the bottom of
> the form.
> If concrete weigh's 150lb's per cubic foot 16" x
> 16" x 104"=26624/1728=15.4 cubic feet or 2311 lb's
> of concrete.
> Now if my numbers are right you should be dealing
> w/ 9.0 PSI pressure around the form at 1"
> elevation.
> I don't think just plywood is going to cut it..
> if you strapped the bottom circ. w / 2 x 4 and
> then the following elevations
> [ all measured from Datum= bottom of colum]
>
> 3"
> 6"
> 9"
> 12"
> 15"
> 18"
> 21"
> 25"
> 29"
> 33"
> 37"
> 42"
> 47"
> 52"
> 58"
> 64"
> 72"
> 82"
> 104"
>
> All elevations should be strapped by a 2 x 4 [23"
> lng + 2x plywood thickness]around the circ. [2"
> high x 4" out from the form]
>
> These numbers should keep all loads below 500lb's
> force on the 2x4 strapping at each elevation[at
> each side]. Hydaulic pressure isn't my strong
> suite [ I'm a draftsman not an engineer]
> Hopefully someone will look this over and tell me
> I'm an idiot.. but.. If I was going to do it..
> this is how I'd go about it....
> Also worth noting, if you do taper tha colum, make
> sure you secure the bottom of it to the floor or
> it will float off.. and all your concrete
> will come spilling out the bottom [ don't ask my
> how I know this!]
> Actually regardless how you do it.. it would be
> worth adding a couple concrete nails at the bottom
> to make sure it doesn't float.. a non-tapered
> colum form could float also..
>
> Jarrett Johnson.. [wondering how desperate Finn is
> to use/ my numbers now... :-) ]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Finn Lassen"
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:40 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] OT: Concrete forms
>
>
> > This is only remotely related to rotaries (home
> > of my future
> > rotary-powered RV-4) so please reply off-list.
> >
> > After having worked for three weekends putting
> > up block and only having
> > done 1 1/2 corners out of 3 so far, I'm
> > seriously considering building
> > forms and having the 9 16x16" columns poured
> > rather that building them
> > up with 16x16" column blocks.
> >
> > If anybody here on the list are familiar with
> > making concrete forms, I
> > sure could use some advice.
> > Columns will be 8' 8" tall and will be
> > supporting 10' long 8x8" lintels
> > with a row of lintel blocks on top.
> >
> > How thick does the plywood have to be to handle
> > a 8'8" tall 16x16"
> > column of concrete?
> >
> > I'm considering using my future 2x4 or 2x6 frame
> > wall studs to form the
> > outside corners of the forms - two along each
> > corner of the form screwed
> > together (8 per form).
> >
> > Another issue is the option of tapering the
> > columns: 16x16 at bottom
> > tapering to 8x16" at top. In my mind that would
> > not change the structual
> > strength of the columns; would save concrete
> > (25%) and possibly require
> > less hefty plywood.
> >
> > I sure could use some advice on both counts.
> >
> > Keywords here are "cheaper" and "easier".
> >
> > 16x16" column blocks are now $3.21 a piece - 13
> > per column.
> > The extra concrete to replace one block is about
> > $2.60 (or $1.95 if
> > tapering the columns).
> > So I'd mainly just be paying for the plywood
> > for the forms - seems
> > worthwhile compared to the work of "stacking"
> > the 117 column blocks.
> > Ideally the forms wo uld also be able to support
> > the lintels and lintel
> > blocks so everything could be poured in one go.
> >
> > Finn
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > --
> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:
> > http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/356 -
> Release Date: 6/5/2006
>
>
> --
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
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