X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.194] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPS id 1090669 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 May 2006 17:35:24 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.194; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d58-104-192-21.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [58.104.192.21]) by mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id k43LYXxC031873 for ; Thu, 4 May 2006 07:34:34 +1000 Message-ID: <004f01c66ef9$65819120$15c0683a@george> From: "george lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Was Oil Pressure and Now... Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 07:34:44 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01C66F4D.36C430F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C66F4D.36C430F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message Joe, This is only a suggestion, I don't want to upset you by pushing a = point. It may be a good idea to test the engine's oil pressure in two = configurations, one with the mount plate in position and one without. = This will indicate if the depth of the pick-up is causing or adding to = the problem. George ( down under) We didn't disassemble the oil pump while I was there just the rotor = housings and E-Shaft. And, no, the filter wasn't clogged at all. The = only thing I could find in the filter was a little tiny brass colored = flake about every other pleat (maybe 20-30 overall).=20 =20 I just think Dave is scratching his head wondering how the bearing = could be worn like that. I'm not sure it was worn enough to cause low = oil pressure - but then again I don't know how worn it needs to be for = the pressure to drop off. So, I wouldn't even characterize it as = "theory" at this point. It was just something to checkout in the process = of trying to track down anything that could cause abrasion. But I guess = if the PSRU drains to the pan (which mine does) there is no chance for = any big pieces to get by the screen and the filter. =20 Thanx, Joe Hull (attempting not to step in it!) Cozy Mk-IV #991 (In Phase1 Flight Test - 10.9 hrs flown)=20 Redmond (Seattle), Washington =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 12:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Was Oil Pressure and Now... =20 With all due respect to Dave, this sounds fishy. Assuming there was = "a problem with the PSRU", it would not show up in bearings unless the = oil filter was completely clogged with debris or the oil pump had been = damaged (was it?). From your description of the filter, it was far from = clogged. =20 Debris from the drive can only go to the oil pan. Anything that made = its way past the oil pickup screen and through the oil pump would have = to then go through the filter before it got to the bearings. Is this = the theory or is there another explanation? =20 Tracy (tired of hearing from Dave that my drives can't work) =20 =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Was Oil Pressure and Now... =20 >We'll all be interested to hear what they find. =20 =20 Went to see David Atkins yesterday. He continues to be a good person = and business to deal with. He took the time amidst the chaos to have the = engine completely torn down and inspected piece by piece as it was = disassembled - while I was there. It all looked pretty good until the = front housing E-shaft bearing. There was definitely some abnormal wear = there and some scuff marks on the E-shaft. There was also some wear on = the center bearing but just on the forward 1/10th of an inch. He's going = to replace the bearing and rebuild the engine and then check the oil = pressure.=20 =20 He suggested I look for any source of chips or anything coming from = the PSRU. Something caused that front bearing to get worn way too = quickly and he suspects there may be a problem with the PSRU since we = didn't find anything in the engine that looked like it was shedding = metal. =20 I'll try to get up to the hangar in the next couple of days to = retrieve the RD-1B and bring it home for disassembly and inspection. =20 ThanxAll, Joe Hull Cozy Mk-IV #991 (In Phase1 Flight Test - 10.9 hrs flown)=20 Redmond (Seattle), Washington ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C66F4D.36C430F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message=
 
Joe,
This is only a suggestion, I don't = want to upset=20 you by pushing a point.
 
It may be a good idea to test the = engine's oil=20 pressure in two configurations, one with the mount plate = in position and=20 one without. This will indicate if the depth of the pick-up is causing = or=20 adding to the problem.
George ( down under)

We didn=92t = disassemble=20 the oil pump while I was there just the rotor housings and E-Shaft. = And, no,=20 the filter wasn=92t clogged at all. The only thing I could find in the = filter=20 was a little tiny brass colored flake about every other pleat (maybe = 20-30=20 overall).

 

I just = think Dave is=20 scratching his head wondering how the bearing could be worn like that. = I=92m not=20 sure it was worn enough to cause low oil pressure =96 but then again I = don=92t=20 know how worn it needs to be for the pressure to drop off. So, I = wouldn=92t even=20 characterize it as =93theory=94 at this point. It was just something = to checkout=20 in the process of trying to track down anything that could cause = abrasion. But=20 I guess if the PSRU drains to the pan (which mine does) there is no = chance for=20 any big pieces to get by the screen and the=20 filter.

 

Thanx,

Joe Hull (attempting not to = step in=20 it!)

Cozy Mk-IV #991 (In Phase1 = Flight Test=20 - 10.9 hrs flown)

Redmond (Seattle), Washington

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Tracy=20 Crook
Sent:=20 Wednesday, May 03, 2006 12:23 PM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Was = Oil Pressure=20 and Now...

 

With all = due=20 respect to Dave, this sounds fishy.   Assuming = there was=20 "a problem with the PSRU", it would not show up in bearings = unless the=20 oil filter was completely clogged with debris or the oil pump had been = damaged=20 (was it?).  From your description of the filter, it was far from=20 clogged.

 

Debris = from the=20 drive can only go to the oil pan.  Anything that made its way = past the=20 oil pickup screen and through the oil pump would have to then go = through the=20 filter before it got to the bearings.  Is this the = theory  or=20 is there another explanation?

 

Tracy  (tired=20 of hearing from Dave that my drives can't=20 work)

 

 

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Was Oil Pressure and Now...

 

>We'll = all be=20 interested to hear what they find.      

 

Went to = see David=20 Atkins yesterday. He continues to be a good person and business to = deal=20 with. He took the time amidst the chaos to have the engine = completely torn=20 down and inspected piece by piece as it was disassembled =96 while I = was=20 there. It all looked pretty good until the front housing E-shaft = bearing.=20 There was definitely some abnormal wear there and some scuff marks = on the=20 E-shaft. There was also some wear on the center bearing but just on = the=20 forward 1/10th of an inch. He=92s going to replace the = bearing and=20 rebuild the engine and then check the oil pressure.=20

 

He = suggested I look=20 for any source of chips or anything coming from the PSRU. Something = caused=20 that front bearing to get worn way too quickly and he suspects there = may be=20 a problem with the PSRU since we didn=92t find anything in the = engine that=20 looked like it was shedding metal.

 

I=92ll = try to get up=20 to the hangar in the next couple of days to retrieve the RD-1B and = bring it=20 home for disassembly and inspection.

 

ThanxAll,

Joe=20 Hull

Cozy Mk-IV #991 (In Phase1 = Flight Test=20 - 10.9 hrs flown)

Redmond (Seattle), Washington=

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