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From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-1089576@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Run and Static RPM Report
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 08:06:02 -0400
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Good summary, Charlie.

Fortunately, I got my operating limitations document amended during the 
"Made a mod, fly it 5 hours, sign off log book" era as well as my little 
Repairman certificate.  Fortunately, because as many changes as I've made, 
I'd be still waiting for FAA sign offs.

Ed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Run and Static RPM Report


> Bob White wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 1 May 2006 19:56:43 -0700
>>"Joe Hull" <joeh@pilgrimtech.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>I think the A&P may be a problem also.  I need one because I didn't
>>>>build the airplane.  He sounded OK when I first talked to him, but more
>>>>recently he's been talking about checking to make sure the plane was
>>>>built to plans and stuff.  I think he's supposed to check the brakes,
>>>>make sure the flaps aren't falling off, etc.  I think his implication
>>>>is that the original builder could modify anything he wanted to, but
>>>>that I can't.  This view seems to me to go beyond the roll of the A&P
>>>>as I understand it.  I may have to find another one that understands
>>>>experimentals.
>>>>
>>>Bob, I hate to say it but I think your DAR is right on the A&P. Since you
>>>aren't the original "Manufacturer" you can't hold a "repairman's
>>>certificate" for your plane. I asked my DAR what would happen if I wanted 
>>>to
>>>buy an old Long-EZ and restore it. He said I could do the work but I'd 
>>>have
>>>to get an A&P to sign it off. So, you can still do the work but you have 
>>>to
>>>find an A&P that is will to inspect your work and sign off in your 
>>>Airplane
>>>Log.
>>>Joe Hull
>>>Cozy Mk-IV #991 (In Phase1 Flight Test - 10.9 hrs flown) Redmond 
>>>(Seattle), Washington
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Hi Joe,
>>
>>Getting the repairman's certificate is definitely out.  I've known that
>>since purchasing the plane.  The A&P was making noises to the effect
>>that I couldn't modify the plane since I wasn't the original builder.
>>If he's concerned about the mods and won't sign off, that's one issue,
>>but AFAIK, I can make any mods I want as long as an A&P signs off.
>>
>>Bob W.
>>
>>
> Here are a few observations & comments, some of which can be backed up 
> with a visit to the EAA website & some of which are direct personal 
> experience.
>
> 1. The repairman's ticket is at the whim of the FAA. You can build 100% of 
> the airframe, mine the ore, etc & if you can't convince the FAA that you 
> can competently maintain the plane, they don't have to issue the ticket. 
> There are also documented cases where the FAA knew that the a/w cert 
> applicant only built the last 5-10% of the plane (rest was amateur built, 
> of course) & the FAA still issued the repair ticket based on their 
> confidence in the applicant's ability. Most, if not all of this is 
> documented on the EAA web site.
>
> 2. The DAR's & a/p's are incorrect about alterations to an 
> already-licensed homebuilt. Anyone, or anything, can work on, modify, 
> rebuild etc a homebuilt. Return to service requirements basically depend 
> on when the a/w cert was issued but never repeat never involve an a/p 
> unless you desire it. For a/w certs issued in the 'old days' you must call 
> the FAA, they do a (minimal) re-inspection & issue a new a/w cert. In the 
> not-so-old days (but before 911), certs were issued with language that 
> allowed a log entry documenting the change & putting the a/c back in phase 
> 1 test for 5 hrs in the original test area defined when the a/w cert was 
> issued. After 5 hrs test time, a log entry returns the plane to normal 
> service. No officials of any sort are involved. Post 911 a/w certs add a 
> restriction that you must notify the FAA of your intent to return to phase 
> 1 & get their new ok on the proposed test area. All else is as the 
> not-so-old days. A/p involvement need not occur until the next annual 
> condition inspection and that is only to do the inspection, not sign off 
> any mods. I've been down all three routes with various homebuilts, none of 
> which I built. To re-state: The only thing you need an a/p or DAR for is 
> signing off a condition inspection; your dog can change an engine & 
> convert to tailwheel if you can teach him how & convince him to do it & as 
> long as you follow the directions in your particular a/w cert, you can 
> return the plane to service legally.
>
> 3. Removing a dataplate & disassembly/reassembly to get your name on the 
> a/c as builder is specifically prohibited, but it has happened.
>
> Now, I can't guarantee that your particular FSDO actually understands 
> their own rules....
>
> Hope this info will make your modification life easier....
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
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