Return-Path: Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.74] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 2587001 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:16:59 -0400 Received: from user-0cetth3.cable.mindspring.com ([24.238.246.35] helo=toshibauser) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A0nE1-00022K-00 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:16:57 -0700 From: "CBarber" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:16:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_018D_01C37F81.D7134960" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_018D_01C37F81.D7134960 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_018E_01C37F81.D71656A0" ------=_NextPart_001_018E_01C37F81.D71656A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed, Just a word of encouragement....would love to see you and others at SWRFI. I have a number of folks who are interested in the engine choice, but they would really like to see flying craft. Its new venue in New Braunfel, TX (between Austin and San Antonio) was a great choice. Really great destination. I just returned yesterday from a yearly trek (it is so nice, it wasn't even aviation related and took me away from working on my newly delivered wing kit, ...just hammock piloting, rivering and jet skiing). I don't think I will be flying yet, but I will be a lot closer to flight . If you need info on the area, let me know. I know it pretty well (attended undergrad nearby). The Faust historic hotel is very reasonable and very nice (IMHO, much nicer and better bang for the buck than the cookie cutter chains).FWIW. All the best, Chris www.LoneStarVelocity.com Christopher Barber Attorney and Counselor at Law 11930 S Sam Houston Pkwy E Suite 103 Houston, Texas 77089-4755 281-464-LAWS (5297) "Serving the needs of Senior Texans" CBarber@TexasAttorney.net www.TexasAttorney.net -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Hi Bill, No, I have not. I have thought about it on the ground, but always seem to forget in the air. I guess part of it is that I think I have found good timing for power on takeoff and climb and just don't want to mess with that. But, now that I think of it I presume that I could mess with the timing on the "B" controller and leave the "A" controller where it is, Hummmm. I think I will check with Tracy to make certain screwing with the timing on one processor won't screw it up on the other. I am 99% certain - buuuttttt want to be sure. I am going to put the presentation on my website (well, actually I dont' have my own, but a guy by name of Don Mack has hosted my stuff for 4 years. Perhaps he won't mind adding some more. In any case, I will probably make hardcopy for a nominal fee (cover my costs) for those interested. I've actually copyrighted the presentation and officially registered it with the Library of Congress CopyRight Office. I don't know if anything similar was even done by the Mazda engineers. We know they did a lot of cut and try experimenting. Like for the 1990 VDIE manifold the to the 1988 NA DIE manifold and changed its length in 200mm segments and then ran dyno curves. Then they chose the segment lengths that gave them the curves they wanted. So they may never have set down and worked out the equations - what need had they when they had the resources to emperically derive what they wanted {:>) Hell, I might find little guys dress all in black swinging long sharp swords at my neither region {:>). I might accused of industrial spying {:>) Well, going to also go to SERFI at Evergreen, Al in early October. Plan on meeting Tracy there and having him give my work a santity check. I sort of probed Paul Lamar, but without even seeing a single slide, he started telling me that I would have a "hard sell". I guess that is because he has "gone on the record" with an email telling folks not to copy anything I was doing manifold wise, because it would "hurt" engine performance at aircraft rpms. Well, he was wrong, but at the time there was nothing I had to show that. I now do {:>). It might need a little twicking on a couple of the parameter values, but the logic and equation derivation is straight foward. No tricks up the sleeve, no magic hats - its all laid out for anyone who can follow simple high school algebra (and even if they can't) will understand. Keep trying to tell some of these folks that just because an intake system is advertised (even honestedly) that it will produce 220 HP at 8000 hp, doesn't mean that it will work for an aircraft (unless we can find a way to shift gears). But, I went that route early on so it take some time and poor experiences to help you find the path. Good hearing from you, Bill. I am going to try and make the SWRFI next year as I have a long lost nephew living near that area. Take care and good flying Best Regards Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Eslick To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 8:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Ed, Have you ever tweedled with the timing while at cruise RPM? I didn't think to try that, but I may. Unfortunately work precludes the Shady Bend attendance this time. Rats again. I am really looking forward to somehow taking in your presentation on intake manifolds. Bill Hi Bill Thanks for the great report. Glad to hear the new manifold is working out so well. Yes, that old spark plug SAG (Sparkplug Attention Getter) will certainly get your attention - ruined more than one seat cusion myself from it. I've got myself a spark plug cleaner (if I can find where I misplaced it) that I want to use to clear some of the numerous spark plugs I have saved to see if I can't get some more hours out of them. I wouldn't worry about not matching Tracy's fuel profile - I can't either. I can cruise at 170 TAS and burn mabye as low as 7.25- 7.5 gph but no lower. I think Tracy can get even higher cruise TAS with 6 - 6.5 GPH. I think part of it is the higher drag of the RV-6, but I also think Tracy has had so many long trips to play with his ignition timing and other variables that he has his really fine tuned. Do you plan on being at the Rotary Fly in? Ed Anderson eanderson@carolina.rr.com ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------=_NextPart_001_018E_01C37F81.D71656A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
 
Just a word of = encouragement....would love=20 to see you and others at SWRFI.  I have a number of folks who are=20 interested in the engine choice, but they would really like to see = flying craft.=20 Its new venue in New Braunfel, TX (between Austin and San Antonio) = was=20 a great choice.  Really great destination.  I just = returned=20 yesterday from a yearly trek (it is so nice, it wasn't even aviation = related and=20 took me away from working on my newly delivered wing kit, ...just = hammock=20 piloting, rivering and jet skiing).  I don't think I will be flying = yet,=20 but I will be a lot closer to flight <g>.
 
If you need info on the area, let = me know. I=20 know it pretty well (attended undergrad nearby).  The Faust = historic hotel=20 is very reasonable and very nice (IMHO, much nicer and better bang = for the=20 buck than the cookie cutter chains).FWIW.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
www.LoneStarVelocity.com
 


Christopher Barber
Attorney and Counselor at = Law
11930 S=20 Sam Houston Pkwy E
Suite 103
Houston, Texas = 77089-4755
281-464-LAWS=20 (5297)

"Serving the needs of Senior=20 Texans"

CBarber@TexasAttorney.net
www.TexasAttorney.net
=

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:44 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Turbomania

Hi Bill,
 
    No, I have not.  I have = thought=20 about it on the ground, but always seem to forget in the air.  I = guess=20 part of it is that I think I have found good timing for power on = takeoff and=20 climb and just don't want to mess with that.  But, now that I = think of it=20 I presume that I could mess with the timing on the "B" controller and = leave=20 the "A" controller where it is, Hummmm. 
 
I think I will check with Tracy to make certain = screwing=20 with the timing on one processor won't screw it up on the other.  = I am=20 99% certain - buuuttttt want to be sure.
 
I am going to put the presentation on my website = (well,=20 actually I dont' have my own, but a guy by name of Don Mack has hosted = my=20 stuff for 4 years.  Perhaps he won't mind adding some = more.
 
In any case, I will probably make hardcopy for a = nominal fee=20 (cover my costs) for those interested.
 
I've actually copyrighted the presentation and=20 officially registered it with the Library of Congress CopyRight = Office. I=20 don't know if anything similar was even done by the Mazda = engineers.  We=20 know they did a lot of cut and try experimenting.  Like for the = 1990 VDIE=20 manifold the to the 1988 NA DIE manifold and changed its length in = 200mm=20 segments and then ran dyno curves.  Then they chose the segment = lengths=20 that gave them the curves they wanted. So they may never have set down = and=20 worked out the equations - what need had they when they had the = resources to=20 emperically derive what they wanted {:>)
 
Hell, I might find little guys dress all in black = swinging=20 long sharp swords at my neither region {:>).  I might accused = of=20 industrial spying {:>)
 
Well, going to also go to SERFI at Evergreen, Al = in early=20 October.  Plan on meeting Tracy there and having him give my work = a=20 santity check.  I sort of probed Paul Lamar, but without even = seeing a=20 single slide, he started telling me that I would have a "hard = sell".  I=20 guess that is because he has "gone on the record" with an email = telling folks=20 not to copy anything I was doing manifold wise, because it would = "hurt" engine=20 performance at aircraft rpms.  Well, he was wrong, but at the = time there=20 was nothing I had to show that.  I now do {:>).  It might = need a=20 little twicking on a couple of the parameter values, but the logic and = equation derivation is straight foward.  No tricks up the sleeve, = no=20 magic hats - its all laid out for anyone who can follow simple high = school=20 algebra (and even if they can't) will understand.
 
Keep trying to tell some of these folks that just = because an=20 intake system is advertised (even honestedly) that it will produce 220 = HP at=20 8000 hp, doesn't mean that it will work for an aircraft (unless we can = find a=20 way to shift gears).  But, I went that route early on so it take = some=20 time and poor experiences to help you find the path.
 
Good hearing from you, Bill.  I am going to = try and=20 make the SWRFI next year as I have a long lost nephew living near that = area.
 
Take care and good flying
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Eslick=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Friday, September 19, = 2003 8:34=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Turbomania

Ed,
 
Have you ever tweedled with the timing while at cruise = RPM? =20 I didn't think to try that, but I may.
 
Unfortunately work precludes the Shady Bend attendance = this=20 time.  Rats again.
 
I am really looking forward to somehow taking in your=20 presentation on intake manifolds.
 
Bill
 
Hi Bill
 
    Thanks = for the=20 great report.  Glad to hear the new = manifold is=20 working out so well.  Yes, that old spark = plug SAG=20 (Sparkplug Attention Getter) will certainly get = your=20 attention - ruined more than one seat cusion = myself from=20 it.  I've got myself a spark plug cleaner = (if I can=20 find where I misplaced it) that I want to use to = clear=20 some of the numerous spark plugs I have saved to = see if=20 I can't get some more hours out of = them.
 
  I wouldn't worry = about not=20 matching Tracy's fuel profile - I can't = either.  I=20 can cruise at 170 TAS and burn mabye as low as = 7.25- 7.5=20 gph but no lower.  I think Tracy can get = even=20 higher cruise TAS with 6 - 6.5 GPH.  I = think part=20 of it is the higher drag of the RV-6, but I also = think=20 Tracy has had so many long trips to play with = his=20 ignition timing and other variables that he has = his=20 really fine tuned.
 
Do you plan on  being = at the=20 Rotary Fly in?
 
Ed Anderson
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
 
 
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally = evolved -=20
Click=20 = Here
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