Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com ([24.93.67.84] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 2586406 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:46:03 -0400 Received: from o7y6b5 (clt78-020.carolina.rr.com [24.93.78.20]) by ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h8K2hl4S017471 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003901c37f20$fa8c8520$1702a8c0@WorkGroup> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:43:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C37EFF.7351B240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C37EFF.7351B240 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0036_01C37EFF.7351B240" ------=_NextPart_001_0036_01C37EFF.7351B240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bill, No, I have not. I have thought about it on the ground, but always = seem to forget in the air. I guess part of it is that I think I have = found good timing for power on takeoff and climb and just don't want to = mess with that. But, now that I think of it I presume that I could mess = with the timing on the "B" controller and leave the "A" controller where = it is, Hummmm. =20 I think I will check with Tracy to make certain screwing with the timing = on one processor won't screw it up on the other. I am 99% certain - = buuuttttt want to be sure. I am going to put the presentation on my website (well, actually I dont' = have my own, but a guy by name of Don Mack has hosted my stuff for 4 = years. Perhaps he won't mind adding some more. In any case, I will probably make hardcopy for a nominal fee (cover my = costs) for those interested. I've actually copyrighted the presentation and officially registered it = with the Library of Congress CopyRight Office. I don't know if anything = similar was even done by the Mazda engineers. We know they did a lot of = cut and try experimenting. Like for the 1990 VDIE manifold the to the = 1988 NA DIE manifold and changed its length in 200mm segments and then = ran dyno curves. Then they chose the segment lengths that gave them the = curves they wanted. So they may never have set down and worked out the = equations - what need had they when they had the resources to = emperically derive what they wanted {:>) Hell, I might find little guys dress all in black swinging long sharp = swords at my neither region {:>). I might accused of industrial spying = {:>) Well, going to also go to SERFI at Evergreen, Al in early October. Plan = on meeting Tracy there and having him give my work a santity check. I = sort of probed Paul Lamar, but without even seeing a single slide, he = started telling me that I would have a "hard sell". I guess that is = because he has "gone on the record" with an email telling folks not to = copy anything I was doing manifold wise, because it would "hurt" engine = performance at aircraft rpms. Well, he was wrong, but at the time there = was nothing I had to show that. I now do {:>). It might need a little = twicking on a couple of the parameter values, but the logic and equation = derivation is straight foward. No tricks up the sleeve, no magic hats - = its all laid out for anyone who can follow simple high school algebra = (and even if they can't) will understand. Keep trying to tell some of these folks that just because an intake = system is advertised (even honestedly) that it will produce 220 HP at = 8000 hp, doesn't mean that it will work for an aircraft (unless we can = find a way to shift gears). But, I went that route early on so it take = some time and poor experiences to help you find the path. Good hearing from you, Bill. I am going to try and make the SWRFI next = year as I have a long lost nephew living near that area. Take care and good flying Best Regards Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Eslick=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 8:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Ed, Have you ever tweedled with the timing while at cruise RPM? I = didn't think to try that, but I may. Unfortunately work precludes the Shady Bend attendance this = time. Rats again. I am really looking forward to somehow taking in your = presentation on intake manifolds. Bill =20 Hi Bill Thanks for the great report. Glad to hear the = new manifold is working out so well. Yes, that old spark plug SAG = (Sparkplug Attention Getter) will certainly get your attention - ruined = more than one seat cusion myself from it. I've got myself a spark plug = cleaner (if I can find where I misplaced it) that I want to use to clear = some of the numerous spark plugs I have saved to see if I can't get some = more hours out of them. I wouldn't worry about not matching Tracy's fuel = profile - I can't either. I can cruise at 170 TAS and burn mabye as low = as 7.25- 7.5 gph but no lower. I think Tracy can get even higher cruise = TAS with 6 - 6.5 GPH. I think part of it is the higher drag of the = RV-6, but I also think Tracy has had so many long trips to play with his = ignition timing and other variables that he has his really fine tuned. Do you plan on being at the Rotary Fly in? Ed Anderson eanderson@carolina.rr.com =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------=_NextPart_001_0036_01C37EFF.7351B240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Bill,
 
    No, I have not.  I have = thought about=20 it on the ground, but always seem to forget in the air.  I guess = part of it=20 is that I think I have found good timing for power on takeoff and climb = and just=20 don't want to mess with that.  But, now that I think of it I = presume that I=20 could mess with the timing on the "B" controller and leave the "A" = controller=20 where it is, Hummmm. 
 
I think I will check with Tracy to make certain = screwing with=20 the timing on one processor won't screw it up on the other.  I am = 99%=20 certain - buuuttttt want to be sure.
 
I am going to put the presentation on my website = (well,=20 actually I dont' have my own, but a guy by name of Don Mack has hosted = my stuff=20 for 4 years.  Perhaps he won't mind adding some more.
 
In any case, I will probably make hardcopy for a = nominal fee=20 (cover my costs) for those interested.
 
I've actually copyrighted the presentation and=20 officially registered it with the Library of Congress CopyRight = Office. I=20 don't know if anything similar was even done by the Mazda = engineers.  We=20 know they did a lot of cut and try experimenting.  Like for the = 1990 VDIE=20 manifold the to the 1988 NA DIE manifold and changed its length in 200mm = segments and then ran dyno curves.  Then they chose the segment = lengths=20 that gave them the curves they wanted. So they may never have set down = and=20 worked out the equations - what need had they when they had the = resources to=20 emperically derive what they wanted {:>)
 
Hell, I might find little guys dress all in black = swinging=20 long sharp swords at my neither region {:>).  I might accused of = industrial spying {:>)
 
Well, going to also go to SERFI at Evergreen, Al in = early=20 October.  Plan on meeting Tracy there and having him give my work a = santity=20 check.  I sort of probed Paul Lamar, but without even seeing a = single=20 slide, he started telling me that I would have a "hard sell".  I = guess that=20 is because he has "gone on the record" with an email telling folks not = to copy=20 anything I was doing manifold wise, because it would "hurt" engine = performance=20 at aircraft rpms.  Well, he was wrong, but at the time there was = nothing I=20 had to show that.  I now do {:>).  It might need a little = twicking=20 on a couple of the parameter values, but the logic and equation = derivation is=20 straight foward.  No tricks up the sleeve, no magic hats - its all = laid out=20 for anyone who can follow simple high school algebra (and even if they = can't)=20 will understand.
 
Keep trying to tell some of these folks that just = because an=20 intake system is advertised (even honestedly) that it will produce 220 = HP at=20 8000 hp, doesn't mean that it will work for an aircraft (unless we can = find a=20 way to shift gears).  But, I went that route early on so it take = some time=20 and poor experiences to help you find the path.
 
Good hearing from you, Bill.  I am going to try = and make=20 the SWRFI next year as I have a long lost nephew living near that=20 area.
 
Take care and good flying
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill = Eslick=20
Sent: Friday, September 19, = 2003 8:34=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbomania

Ed,
 
Have you ever tweedled with the timing while at cruise = RPM?  I=20 didn't think to try that, but I may.
 
Unfortunately work precludes the Shady Bend attendance this = time.  Rats again.
 
I am really looking forward to somehow taking in your = presentation=20 on intake manifolds.
 
Bill
 
Hi Bill
 
    Thanks for = the great=20 report.  Glad to hear the new manifold is = working out=20 so well.  Yes, that old spark plug SAG = (Sparkplug=20 Attention Getter) will certainly get your = attention -=20 ruined more than one seat cusion myself from = it. =20 I've got myself a spark plug cleaner (if I can = find where=20 I misplaced it) that I want to use to clear some = of the=20 numerous spark plugs I have saved to see if I = can't get=20 some more hours out of them.
 
  I wouldn't worry about = not=20 matching Tracy's fuel profile - I can't = either.  I=20 can cruise at 170 TAS and burn mabye as low as = 7.25- 7.5=20 gph but no lower.  I think Tracy can get even = higher=20 cruise TAS with 6 - 6.5 GPH.  I think part of = it is=20 the higher drag of the RV-6, but I also think = Tracy has=20 had so many long trips to play with his ignition = timing=20 and other variables that he has his really fine=20 tuned.
 
Do you plan on  being at = the Rotary=20 Fly in?
 
Ed Anderson
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
 
 
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally = evolved -=20 Click=20 = Here ------=_NextPart_001_0036_01C37EFF.7351B240-- ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C37EFF.7351B240 Content-Type: image/gif; name="IMSTP.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <003401c37f20$fa528960$1702a8c0@WorkGroup> R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE CRQACAAsAgABABAADQAABEoQIUOrpXIOwrsPxiQUheeRAgUA49YNhbCqK1kS9grQhXGAhsDBUJgZ AL2Dcqkk7ogFpvRAokSn0p4PO6UIuUsQggSmFjKXdAgRAQAh+QQFCgAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEEhDJ Sau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oBAAh+QQJFAAIACwCAAEAEAANAAAEShAhQ6ulcg7Cuw/GJBSF55ECBQDj 1g2FsKorWRL2CtCFcYCGwMFQmBkAvYNyqSTuiAWm9ECiRKfSng87pQi5SxCCBKYWMpd0CBEBACH5 BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C37EFF.7351B240--