X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [216.211.128.10] (HELO mail-in02.adhost.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1068743 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:38:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.211.128.10; envelope-from=joeh@pilgrimtech.com Received: from Pilgrim10 (tide514.microsoft.com [131.107.0.84]) by mail-in02.adhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B280A2E7144 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:37:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joeh@pilgrimtech.com) From: "Joe Hull" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:37:47 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01c6600b$ac67d330$cda0389d@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C65FD1.0008FB30" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcZgCQRQt7VI6tzxTneyZdbRpjzA4wAAiBAQ This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C65FD1.0008FB30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Remember if you use the Conversion Concepts type mount (with the =BD=94 = aluminum base between engine and pan) you automatically have =BD=94 more depth to = your oil pan. Not all of it is useable because a big part of the space is = taken up by the plate =96 but you still get some. And I think the plate = reduces foam because the oil drips onto the plate first and then drains into the pan = (I could be wrong about this). =20 Thanx, Joe Hull Cozy Mk-IV #991 (Done Building! In Phase1 Flight Test - 0 hrs flown)=20 Redmond (Seattle), Washington =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of chris mallory Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:18 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank =20 Ed, =20 Tracy didn't think the Renesis pan was deep enough. It might have been total quantity, but I think it was more the sloshing and foam. A deeper = pan would eliminate this problem. =20 Tracy, if this isn't right, please set me straight. =20 Thanks for the answers. Now I can start fabricating. =20 Chris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank =20 Just a question, Chris - why modify the Renesis oil Pan? Do you feel = you need additional oil?=20 =20 Yes, from the oil pickup hole in the block. I put a gasket on the = engine side of the plate and then a tube through the plate into the pickup = hole. I made a fitting that used the two oil pickup bolt holes and with a big = drill bit make the underside of the hole through the fitting a bit convex. I = put the fitting over the tube, an "O" ring around the tube, stick the tube through the hole in the plate and then tighten the two bolts forcing the = "O" ring against the tube and plate giving me an air tight seal. I use a = new "O" ring anytime I loosen the fitting. I do the same for the tube end entering the sump. If you have even a slight air leak, the pump won't producing sufficient suction to lift the oil, so careful going is called = for in fabricating this. =20 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: chris mallory =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank =20 Thanks Ed, =20 This is all very helpful! I'm looked at leaving the Renesis oil pan installed. Tapping a hole in the bottom to let oil flow to the sump. = I'll mount the sump at the side of the engine, just below the level of the = oil pan. Then I'll put the pickup from the top, turn in 90 into the side of = the oil pan, using the oil level indicator hole. =20 Did you run one pickup line from the bottom of the engine, through the = plate into the top of the sump, and then seal up the hole where it went = through the plate? How did you set that part up? =20 Thanks, =20 Chris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank =20 Hi Chris, =20 Rotary "hang out" is generally on Row 19 on the flight line with = cowls-off until 1330 then to the rotary engine tent for rest of afternoon. =20 My "Plugs Up" installation has the oil drain to the bottom side of the block. The oil pan area is covered with a 3/16" aluminum plate. Then = the oil drains through holes (six I believe) in the bottom of the plate and through a 2"x1" rectangular tube (running length of plate). The rectangular tube is used to "stand-off" the "Sump" from the plate so I = can access the pan bolts in that area (otherwise the sump would be flat up against the plate cover the oil pan holes in that area. The oil drains through the six holes and into the sump which is a 4x4" rectangular tube with plates welded on both ends and various fittings and holes (such as = the fill hole and dip still hole). =20 I then extended the oil pickup tube through the side of the plate and = into the top of the 4x4 sump. The pickup actually goes through a removal = plate on the top of the sump, so I have access to the screen on the bottom of = the pickup tube. The tube is sealed with rubber O rings where it goes = through the plate and sump to ensure an air tight seal - you do not want any air leaks. =20 The system holds 4.3 quarts of oil (you could have more by making the = sump larger - but after 325 hours, my conclusion is you don't need more - = after all this is not an aircraft engine {:>)). =20 Here are a couple of photos that make made this clearer. The long blue = tube is the oil filler, you can see the oil pickup arching out of the plate = and into the top of the sump. =20 Hope this helps =20 Ed =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: chris mallory =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil tank =20 My current problem: I don't want to take up the space below the engine = with the larger 13b oil pan. I was thinking of doing something like Ed has. = I can use the renesis pan as a collector or make a blank out of alluminum, pipe the oil to a tank sitting on the side of the engine, then plumb it = back into the pump. =20 =20 Ed, how does your system get the oil to the tank? How big is the tank? = How did you connect back to the pick-up? =20 As always, any comments and constructive criticism are welcome. =20 Chris =20 P.S. Sorry I missed everyone at Sun and Fun. Was there a rotary = hangout that I missed? _____ =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C65FD1.0008FB30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Remember if you use the Conversion Concepts type mount (with the =BD” aluminum base between engine = and pan) you automatically have =BD” more depth to your oil pan. Not all of = it is useable because a big part of the space is taken up by the plate – = but you still get some. And I think the plate reduces foam because the oil drips = onto the plate first and then drains into the pan (I could be wrong about = this).

 

Thanx,

Joe = Hull

Cozy Mk-IV #991 (Done Building! In = Phase1 Flight Test - 0 hrs flown)

Redmond (Seattle), Washington

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of chris mallory
Sent: Friday, April 14, = 2006 2:18 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Oil tank

 

Ed,

 

Tracy didn't think the Renesis pan was deep enough.  It might have been total = quantity, but I think it was more the sloshing and foam.  A deeper pan would eliminate this problem.

 

Tracy, if this isn't right, please set me straight.

 

Thanks for the answers.  Now I can start = fabricating.

 

Chris

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Ed Anderson

Sent: Friday, = April 14, 2006 3:55 PM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank

 

Just a question, Chris - why modify the Renesis oil Pan?  Do you feel you need additional oil? =

 

Yes, from the oil pickup hole in the block.  I = put a gasket on the engine side of the plate and then a tube through the plate = into the pickup hole.  I made a fitting that used the two oil pickup = bolt holes and with a big drill bit make the underside of the hole through the = fitting a bit convex.  I put the fitting over the tube,  an = "O" ring around the tube, stick the tube through the hole in the plate and then = tighten the two bolts forcing the "O" ring against the tube and plate = giving me an air tight seal.  I use a new "O" ring anytime I = loosen the fitting.  I do the same for the tube end entering the sump.  = If you have even a slight air leak, the pump won't producing sufficient suction = to lift the oil, so careful going is called for in fabricating = this.

 

Ed

----- Original Message ----- =

Sent: Friday, = April 14, 2006 4:03 PM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank

 

Thanks Ed,

 

This is all very helpful!  I'm looked at leaving = the Renesis oil pan installed.  Tapping a hole in the bottom to let oil = flow to the sump.  I'll mount the sump at the side of the engine, = just below the level of the oil pan.  Then I'll put the pickup from = the top, turn in 90 into the side of the oil pan, using the oil level = indicator hole. 

Did you run one pickup line from the bottom of the = engine, through the plate into the top of the sump, and then seal up the hole = where it went through the plate?  How did you set that part = up?

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Ed Anderson

Sent: Friday, = April 14, 2006 10:58 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank

 

Hi Chris,

 

Rotary "hang out" is generally on Row 19 on = the flight line with cowls-off until 1330 then to the rotary engine tent for = rest of afternoon.

 

My "Plugs Up" installation has the oil = drain to the bottom side of the block.  The oil pan area is covered with a 3/16" aluminum plate.  Then the oil drains through holes (six = I believe) in the bottom of the plate and through  a 2"x1" rectangular tube (running length of plate).  The rectangular tube = is used to "stand-off" the "Sump" from the plate so I can access the pan bolts in that area (otherwise the sump would be = flat up against the plate cover the oil pan holes in that area.  The oil = drains through the six holes and into the sump which is a 4x4" rectangular = tube with plates welded on both ends and various fittings and holes (such as = the fill hole and dip still hole).

 

I then extended the oil pickup tube through the side = of the plate and into the top of the 4x4 sump.  The pickup actually goes = through a removal plate on the top of the sump, so I have access to the screen = on the bottom of the pickup tube.  The tube is sealed with rubber O rings = where it goes through the plate and sump to ensure an air tight seal - you do not = want any air leaks.

 

The system holds 4.3 quarts of oil (you could have = more by making the sump larger - but after 325 hours, my conclusion is you don't = need more - after all this is not an aircraft engine = {:>)).

 

Here are a couple of photos that make made this clearer.  The long blue tube is the oil filler, you can see the oil = pickup arching out of the plate and into the top of the = sump.

 

Hope this helps

 

Ed

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, = April 14, 2006 9:48 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Oil tank

 

My current problem:  I don't want to take up the = space below the engine with the larger 13b oil pan.  I was thinking of = doing something like Ed has.  I can use the renesis pan as a collector or = make a blank out of alluminum, pipe the oil to a tank sitting on the side of = the engine, then plumb it back into the pump.  =

 

Ed, how does your system get the oil to the = tank?  How big is the tank?  How did you connect back to the = pick-up?

 

As always, any comments and constructive criticism = are welcome.

 

Chris

 

P.S.  Sorry I missed everyone at Sun and = Fun.  Was there a rotary hangout that I missed?

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/

------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C65FD1.0008FB30--