X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from backend1.xplornet.com ([207.179.143.200] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPS id 1055699 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 20:16:50 -0500 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.179.143.200; envelope-from=echolakeresort@telus.net Received: from echolake-cc8a26 (206-47-94-97.anikast.net [206.47.94.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by backend1.xplornet.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k321Fg2h013291 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 21:15:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <442F2633.00000B.02128@ECHOLAKE-CC8A26> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 17:17:39 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_F9M2CJD0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) From: "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher)" References: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Very short intake manifold length X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 --------------Boundary-00=_F9M2CJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_F9M27TH0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_F9M27TH0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Lynn=0D Thanks I have 3 or 4 housings that have less than an 1/8" of chrome missing( some less than 1/16"). Does anyone know how much you can move th= e thrust line with minimal effect?=0D Georges B =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Lehanover@aol.com=0D Date: 04/01/06 16:27:44=0D To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Very short intake manifold length=0D =0D In a message dated 4/1/2006 10:41:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, echolakeresort@telus.net writes:=0D Thanks Lynn=0D I guess I should have asked first, I already got the Petersen 3.5 gallon tank & the Weaver 3 stage pump on Ebay this week (I'm more concerned abou= t keeping the engine cool than the weight)I used that same pump for years w= hen I raced in "B" sedan, never exploded an engine because on oil pressure, t= hat s why I picked it . IVO came up with that prop size (electric control). K= en Weller uses a 4 or 5 blade prop but the float plane guys say the larger diameter the better. I can't find anyone who is using a large prop with a 13b.I have a Nitrous system if I really need it. The engine thrust line o= n the Christavia is only about 10" from the top (suitable for a Lyc.0-320) = I don't know how much I can lower it without ill effect. An other question= , I have taken 7 13bs apart & only have one rotor housing that doesn't have s= ome chrome chipping on the edge, can any be used? Sure would like to hear fro= m anyone using a large prop on a 13b. I appreciate your input, although I built race cars & piston engines for years I was never involved with rotaries (wish I had may have blown less engines with rotaries than pisto= n engines). The Christavia Mk IV is designed to use a 150hp engine on wheel= s so 180 to 190 hp should be OK on floats=0D =0D =0D =0D Georges Boucher=0D 2126 Creighton Valley Road=0D Lumby, British Columbia=0D Canada V0E 2G1=0D Phone:(250) 547-6434=0D 1- 877-547-6434=0D Fax:: (250) 547-2342=0D www.echolakefishingresort.com=0D echolakeresort@xplornet.com =0D The chrome flakes off from fretting as the housing moves around on the ir= on from high stress operation and just heating and cooling. By running over = the very edge of the chrome with a diamond file nearly fat to the sides of th= e housing, so as to reduce the edge of the chrome so it will not touch the iron. Sealing is not dependant on the chrome layer. The chrome is also failed from the excess pressure of the small corner of the apex seal, tha= t has more than enough pressure from the spring. One piece seals do no such damage. Note that later apex seals have the joint inboard of the corner.=0D =0D Many engines die from OPM failure and or running filthy oil that cannot protect the chrome from wear. So long as the damage is with about 1/8" of the edge there should be no problems. Further damage will just appear as lowered power output and lowered compression.=0D =0D The larger the prop diameter the more efficient it becomes. Also the drag= at the tip is increasing faster than the efficiency is increasing right up t= o sonic where it all goes to hell. =0D =0D Note that WWII fighters had propeller diameters close to 1/4 the wing spa= n. And they all had reduction boxes. So there would be some logic in trying = the largest diameter first. =0D =0D The weaver is not a bad pump, but does not work well in the suction lift department. Better to have the oil level in the tank higher than the pump= =2E The engine sump will over fill when parked as the oil leaks backwards through the pump gears. So a few seconds at idle is required, to allow th= e scavenge side to remove that oil and get it back into the tank before hig= h power is needed. Also the scavenge side can build very high pressures, wi= th no pressure relief system and blow off a hose, or collapse a filter eleme= nt. A real treat if you have not done it before.=0D =0D Sign onto the "Nopistons" list and check for used housings in the for sal= e area. Also hundreds of people asking questions and finding sources of sup= ply There is a huge Mazda only junk yard in Georgia but I forgot the name. I will find it and post it. Also the RX-7 list.=0D =0D Lynn E. Hanover =0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_F9M27TH0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi! Lynn
Thanks I have 3 or 4  housings that have less than an 1/8" of c= hrome missing( some less than 1/16"). Does anyone know how much= you can move the thrust line with minimal effect?
Georges B 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 04/01/06 16:= 27:44
Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: Very short intake manifold length
 
In a message dated 4/1/2006 10:41:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ech= olakeresort@telus.net writes:
Thanks Lynn
I guess I should have asked first, I already got the Petersen 3.5 ga= llon tank & the Weaver 3 stage pump on Ebay this week (I'm more = concerned about keeping the engine cool than the weight)I used that same = pump for years when I raced in "B" sedan, never exploded an engine becaus= e on oil pressure, that's why I picked it . IVO came up with that pr= op size (electric control). Ken Weller uses a 4 or 5 blade prop but the f= loat plane guys say the larger diameter the better. I can't find anyone w= ho is using a large prop with a 13b.I have a Nitrous system if I really n= eed it. The engine thrust line on the Christavia is only about 10" from t= he top (suitable for a Lyc.0-320) I don't know  how much I can lower= it without ill effect. An other question, I have taken 7 13bs apart &= ; only have one rotor housing that doesn't have some chrome chipping on t= he edge, can any be used? Sure would like to hear from anyone using a lar= ge prop on a 13b. I appreciate your input, although I built race cars &am= p; piston engines for years I was never involved with rotaries (wish I ha= d may have blown less engines with rotaries than piston engines). The Chr= istavia Mk IV is designed to use a 150hp engine on wheels so 180 to 190 h= p should be OK on floats
 
 
Georges Boucher
2126 Creighton Valley Road
Lumby, British Columbia
Canada  V0E 2G1
Phone:(250) 547-6434
1- 877-547-6434
Fax:: (250) 547-2342
=
The chrome flakes off from fretting as the housing moves around on t= he iron from high stress operation and just heating and cooling. By = running over the very edge of the chrome with a diamond file nearly fat t= o the sides of the housing, so as to reduce the edge of the chrome so it = will not touch the iron. Sealing is not dependant on the chrome layer. Th= e chrome is also failed from the excess pressure of the small corner of t= he apex seal, that has more than enough pressure from the spring. One pie= ce seals do no such damage. Note that later apex seals have the joint inb= oard of the corner.
 
Many engines die from OPM failure and or running filthy oil that can= not protect the chrome from wear. So long as the damage is with about 1/8= " of the edge there should be no problems. Further damage will just appea= r as lowered power output and lowered compression.
 
The larger the prop diameter the more efficient it becomes. Also the= drag at the tip is increasing faster than the efficiency is increasing r= ight up to sonic where it all goes to hell.
 
Note that WWII fighters had propeller diameters close to 1/4 the win= g span. And they all had reduction boxes. So there would be some logic in= trying the largest diameter first.
 
The weaver is not a bad pump, but does not work well in the suction = lift department. Better to have the oil level in the tank higher than the= pump. The engine sump will over fill when parked as the oil leaks backwa= rds through the pump gears. So a few seconds at idle is required, to allo= w the scavenge side to remove that oil and get it back into the tank= before high power is needed. Also the scavenge side can build very high = pressures, with no pressure relief system and blow off a hose, or collaps= e a filter element. A real treat if you have not done it before.
 
Sign onto the "Nopistons" list and check for used housings in the fo= r sale area. Also hundreds of people asking questions and finding sources= of supply. There is a huge Mazda only junk yard in Georgia but I forgot = the name. I will find it and post it. Also the RX-7 list.
 
Lynn E. Hanover   
 
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