X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.137] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1055081 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 03:16:26 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.137; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id q.235.9a37bf6 (29672) for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 03:15:35 -0500 (EST) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <235.9a37bf6.315f90a7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 03:15:35 EST Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Very short intake manifold length To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1143879335" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1143879335 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/31/2006 9:54:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, echolakeresort@telus.net writes: Thanks Lynn I would like to get 200hp at 7500RPM, With a gross weight of 2300lbs on floats & a cruise speed of about 120mph it's not like an RV. My plan is a plugs up position with a 3 stage Weaver dry sump pump and a 14 quart oil tank. I have a 90 13b NA (9.7:1 rotors) Mazdatrix street port template, 3GM evaporator cores in series & RX7 oil cooler (2 if needed), RWS 2.85:1 re-drive, EM2 & EC2 with an IVO 84" controllable propeller. Is 200HP a pipe dream? Georges B. It is possible that you could get very close to 200 HP with a street port. The last conversations I had with the two great engine builders I know was that the E production engines (13B treet ported two 38MM chokes) were producing 229HP and 231 HP, but at close to 9,000. In reading about Dave Lemons engines (also E production) he said he could not get used to shifting after the 10,000 RPM light comes on. These are in very fast cars, and in most cases faster than mine (GT-3 12As). Google Dave Lemon. These are running a limited (by rules) street port. Turning that big a prop 2,631 RPM even with no pitch is perhaps hopefull. The airboat people tend to very low pitch large diameter props with wide blades. They also use 550 cubic inch 350 HP engines. The latest gag is two props counter rotating at differing RPM. That so they can load the boat and leave from the dry grass into the water and not need a loading ramp. Check with Ken Weller on that float plane stuff. He uses a 100 HP nitrous shot (available at any hot rod shop) to explode out of the water. He has the extra fuel required figured out and shuts off the trailing ignition during the shot to prevent detonation. Remember the definition of detonation? Very clever. If you were looking for 190 HP with a 50HP nitrous shot on top of that to pop up I would say no problem. I have no feel for the drag of floats vice a displacement hull. Sounds like it would be less. I am down to 6 quarts in the small holding tank. Tall and small diameter. It was a new fire extinguisher bottle. Clean and light. If you don't already own it, I would skip the weaver brothers pump. I have one. It is a gear and idler type and cannot pull much of a vacuum and unless new inside cannot produce top pressure. It just has very little displacement. A gearotor (ring and rotor) type is what I use now. The old round style Peterson is fine. the newer square bodied Peterson is junk. The pressure section splits open along the bolt holes. Only a college graduate would build a square pressure vessel. My current pump is the Moroso with the Ford pressure section (bigger rotors) 1 1/8" instead of 7/8" (I think). Peterson does have a selection of Gilmer belt pulleys at a good price. The belts are cheap through any power transmission store. A friend just paid me another Moroso pump that I built for a Datsun years back for building him a rotary he had damaged. So now I have a spare Moroso pump. Unless there is a real clearance problem, I would avoid the plugs up thing. It adds several engineering problems to a very busy program. You can move the filter to a remote location with no problem. Planes with that layout tend to land on roads more than others. Lynn E. Hanover -------------------------------1143879335 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 3/31/2006 9:54:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 echolakeresort@telus.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
Thanks Lynn
I would like to get 200hp at 7500RPM, With a gross weight of=20 2300lbs on floats & a cruise speed of about 120mph it's not= =20 like an RV. My plan is a plugs up position with a 3 stage Weaver dry= =20 sump pump and a 14 quart oil tank. I have a 90 13b NA (9.7:1 rotors)= =20 Mazdatrix street port template, 3GM evaporator cores in series &= RX7=20 oil cooler (2 if needed), RWS 2.85:1 re-drive, EM2 & EC2 wi= th=20 an IVO 84" controllable propeller. Is 200HP a pipe dream?
Georges B.
 
It is possible that you could get very close to=20= 200 HP=20 with a street port. The last conversations I had with the two great=20 engine builders I know was that the E production engines (13B treet=20 ported two 38MM chokes) were producing 229HP and 231 HP, but at clos= e to=20 9,000. In reading about Dave Lemons engines (also E production) he s= aid=20 he could not get used to shifting after the 10,000 RPM light comes o= n.=20 These are in very fast cars, and in most cases faster than mine (GT-= 3=20 12As).  Google Dave Lemon. These are running a limited (by rule= s)=20 street port.
 
Turning that big a prop 2,631 RPM even with no p= itch=20 is perhaps hopefull.
The airboat people tend to very low pitch large=20 diameter props with wide blades. They also use 550 cubic inch 350 HP= =20 engines. The latest gag is two props counter rotating at=20 differing RPM. That so they can load the boat and leave from th= e=20 dry grass into the water and not need a loading ramp. Check with Ken= =20 Weller on that float plane stuff. He uses a 100 HP nitrous shot=20 (available at any hot rod shop) to explode out of the water. He has=20= the=20 extra fuel required figured out and shuts off the trailing ignition=20 during the shot to prevent detonation. Remember the definition of=20 detonation? Very clever. 
 
If you were looking for 190 HP with a 50HP nitro= us=20 shot on top of that to pop up I would say no problem. I have no feel= for=20 the drag of floats vice a displacement hull. Sounds like it wou= ld=20 be less.  
 
I am down to 6 quarts in the small holding tank.= Tall=20 and small diameter. It was a new fire extinguisher bottle. Clean and= =20 light. If you don't already own it, I would skip the weaver brothers= =20 pump. I have one. It is a gear and idler type and cannot pull much o= f a=20 vacuum and unless new inside cannot produce top pressure. It just ha= s=20 very little displacement. A gearotor (ring and rotor) type is what I= use=20 now. The old round style Peterson is fine. the newer square bodied=20 Peterson is junk. The pressure section splits open along the bolt ho= les.=20 Only a college graduate would build a square pressure vessel. M= y=20 current pump is the Moroso with the Ford pressure section (bigger=20 rotors) 1 1/8" instead of 7/8" (I think). Peterson does have a selec= tion=20 of Gilmer belt pulleys at a good price. The belts are cheap through=20= any=20 power transmission store. A friend just paid me another Moroso pump=20= that=20 I built for a Datsun years back for building him a rotary he had=20 damaged. So now I have a spare Moroso pump. 
 
Unless there is a real clearance problem, I woul= d=20 avoid the plugs up thing. It adds several engineering problems to a=20= very=20 busy program. You can move the filter to a remote location with no=20 problem. Planes with that layout tend to land on roads more than oth= ers.=20
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
 
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