X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.8) with ESMTP id 1024393 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:08:21 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-025-165.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.25.165]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k26I7Yl1011830 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:07:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002f01c64149$227949f0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Heaters Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:09:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01C6411F.395DFB90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C6411F.395DFB90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, Joe. I have an oil cooler core sitting on my side of the = firewall that extracts heat from the coolant system. However, the = small amount of heat its capable of extracting is so small compared to = the thousands of BTU of heat you need to get rid of each minute from a = flying rotary that the effect on cooling is nil.=20 I know folks have turned on their heaters to save an over heated auto = engine - but, those engines were not being operated at high power = settings if they were having cooling problems.=20 In fact, if you were able to come up with something that extracts = significant amounts of heat - it would quickly broil the occupants of = the cockpit {:>). Not trying to discourage you, Joe, but I do believe that for it to be = worth the weight and complexity that it would have to extract at least = 10-15% of the coolant waste heat. If you are pulling 160 HP you need to = dump approx 5000 BTU/min through the cooling system. So 15% of 5000 =3D = 750 BUT/min. Now if my Units converter is correct that about to = 13.17647 Kilowatts. I think that would get a cockpit a mite warm in a = hurry. Even if you are cruising at a more realistic 110 HP and only taking = 10% of the coolant heat load then that would be 10% of 3362 BTU/min =3D = 336 BTU/Min =3D 5 Kilowatts so that would be like having 5 hair dryers = on full hot blowing air into the cockpit. Again, might get a bit warm. = Now of course, you could have a valve to control the flow of hot coolant = and maintain a more reasonable cockpit temperature - but then there = would not be much engine cooling benefit. At least that is the way it = appears to me based on what I understood from your description. Just my $0.02 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Berki=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:23 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Heaters Has anyone designed a separate system that extracts heat from the = engine compartment or components to heat a fluid in a separate system = using a heat exchanger to dump the heat into the cabin and a separate = pump? This way you are not making this system part of the engine = cooling system and can run lower pressure and be able to shut it off = without affecting the engine system. I was thinking of a device that = subarus had sandwitched between the oil filter and the block. Any = thoughts? Joe Berki Limo EZ ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C6411F.395DFB90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah, Joe.   I have an oil cooler core = sitting=20 on my side of the firewall that extracts heat from the coolant=20 system.   However, the small amount of heat its capable of = extracting=20 is so small compared to the thousands of BTU of heat you need to get rid = of each=20 minute from a flying rotary that the effect on cooling is=20 nil. 
 
  I know folks have turned on their heaters = to save=20 an over heated auto engine - but, those engines were  not being = operated at=20 high power settings if they were having cooling = problems. 
 
 In fact, if you were able to come up with = something=20 that extracts significant amounts of heat - it would quickly broil the = occupants=20 of the cockpit {:>).
 
Not trying to discourage you, Joe,  but I = do believe=20 that for it to be worth the weight and complexity that it would have to = extract=20 at least 10-15% of the coolant waste heat.  If you are pulling 160 = HP you=20 need to dump approx 5000 BTU/min through the cooling system.  So = 15% of=20 5000 =3D 750 BUT/min.  Now if my Units converter is correct that = about to=20 13.17647 Kilowatts.   I think that would get a cockpit a mite=20  warm in a hurry.
 
  Even if you are cruising at a more = realistic 110 HP=20 and only taking 10% of the coolant heat load then that would be 10% of = 3362=20 BTU/min =3D 336 BTU/Min =3D 5 Kilowatts so that would be like having 5 = hair dryers=20 on full hot blowing air into the cockpit.  Again, might get a bit=20 warm.  Now of course, you could have a valve to control the flow of = hot=20 coolant and maintain a more reasonable cockpit temperature - but then = there=20 would not be much engine cooling benefit. At least that is the way it = appears to=20 me based on what I understood from your description.
 
Just my $0.02
 
 
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Joe Berki=20
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 = 12:23=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Heaters

Has anyone designed a separate system = that=20 extracts heat from the engine compartment or components to heat a = fluid in a=20 separate system using a heat exchanger to dump the heat into the cabin = and a=20 separate pump?  This way you are not making this system part of = the=20 engine cooling system and can run lower pressure and be able to shut = it=20 off without affecting the engine system.  I was thinking of = a device=20 that subarus had sandwitched between the oil filter and the = block.  Any=20 thoughts?
 
Joe Berki
Limo EZ =20
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