X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.250.76] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.7) with ESMTP id 965256 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:39:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.250.76; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:38:17 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.129.17 by BAY115-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:38:16 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.129.17] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Suitability of NPG for Rotary Engine use Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:38:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0088_01C62817.0E644910" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:38:11 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 21:38:17.0058 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA650420:01C62840] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C62817.0E644910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/1/06, Ed Anderson = > wrote:=20 You are right, Jesse - no conflict here. If both a reciprocating = engine ( which is normally a iron block(or steel sleeve inserts) with an = aluminum piston) and a rotary loose coolant, my bet is the iron block = will at some point seize from overheating. Because the aluminum piston = will expand faster than the iron/steel due to the heat. Just the = opposite with a rotary (as at least two/three folks have proven), the = aluminum housing expands (and some compression/power is lost) faster = than the iron rotor - so no seizing even though the engine is cooked. =20 Never said you wouldn't damage a rotary with a loss of coolant, just = that it would keep running as long as then engine had fire and fuel. = Landing with a damaged engine with some power available beats dead = sticking in a seized engine in my opinion.=20 Ed In my limited experience of overheating rotary engines and then dead = sticking onto freeways, you can expect about 4 minutes from inital = overheat to complete loss of engine power. The engine will not seize, = but the complete loss of compression will prevent any power production.=20 I invite other to verify my data :-) --=20 Dave Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY I think TTDS (time till dead stick) in a loss of coolant scenario = depends on a lot of factors. After replacing a broken tension bolt = during a Texas RV fly-in, the coolant pressure cap failed to seal up due = to a mod I did to the filler neck (long story). I though the pressure = looked low on takeoff but ignored it (dumb, dumb) because temperature = was just fine. It stayed that way for about 12 minutes. I was = pleasantly zoned out when the overtemp alarm went off. My first = instinct was to throttle back to low power (I was at about 5000 feet by = then) to protect the health of the engine. GPS showed that I was 6 = minutes away from nearest airport and the engine was running nicely when = I shut down after landing. Was at at very low power the whole time = after the alarm since I was essentially gliding.=20 After topping off with straight water and fixing my cap problem I flew = back to Florida with no problems and the engine did not suffer any = damage at all. If I had not throttled way back I'm sure it would have = been a very different story though. Tracy ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C62817.0E644910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 


On 2/1/06, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
You are right, Jesse - no conflict = here.  If both=20 a reciprocating engine ( which is normally a iron block(or = steel sleeve=20 inserts) with an aluminum piston) and a rotary loose coolant, my bet = is the=20 iron block will at some point seize from overheating.  Because = the=20 aluminum piston will expand faster than the iron/steel due to the=20 heat.  Just the opposite with a rotary (as at least two/three = folks=20 have proven), the aluminum housing expands (and some = compression/power is=20 lost) faster than the iron rotor - so no seizing even though the = engine is=20 cooked.  
 
Never said you wouldn't damage a rotary with = a loss of=20 coolant, just that it would keep running as long as then engine=20 had fire and fuel.  Landing with a damaged engine with = some power=20 available beats dead sticking in a seized engine in my opinion.=20
 
Ed
 
In my limited experience of overheating rotary engines and = then dead=20 sticking onto freeways, you can expect about 4 minutes from = inital=20 overheat to complete loss of engine power.  The engine will not = seize,=20 but the complete loss of compression will prevent any power = production.
 
I invite other to verify my data  :-)
 
--
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
I think TTDS (time till dead stick) in a loss of coolant=20 scenario depends on a lot of factors. After replacing a = broken=20 tension bolt during a Texas RV fly-in, the coolant pressure cap = failed to=20 seal up due to a mod I did to the filler neck (long=20 story).   I though the pressure looked low on takeoff but = ignored it=20 (dumb, dumb) because temperature was just fine.  It stayed that = way for=20 about 12 minutes.  I was pleasantly zoned out when the = overtemp=20 alarm went off.  My first instinct was to throttle back to low = power (I=20 was at about 5000 feet by then) to protect the health of the = engine.  GPS=20 showed that I was 6 minutes away from nearest airport and the = engine was=20 running nicely when I shut down after landing.  Was at at very = low power=20 the whole time after the alarm since I was essentially=20 gliding. 
 
After topping off with straight water and fixing my cap = problem=20 I flew back to Florida with no problems and the engine did not suffer = any=20 damage at all.   If I had not throttled way back I'm sure it = would=20 have been a very different story though.
 
Tracy
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