X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from m12.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.75] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.7) with SMTP id 964227 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 18:49:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.30.75; envelope-from=alwick@juno.com Received: from m12.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m12.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB8CUF3AJF2L9A for (sender ); Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from alwick@juno.com) by m12.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LF6PBD2N; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:48:04 PST To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:46:35 -0800 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Suitability of NPG for Rotary Engine use Message-ID: <20060201.154653.2900.26.alwick@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_0d48.5919.2361 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,10-11,16-28,30,32-33,38-39,47-48,50-51,53-66,67-32767 From: al p Wick X-ContentStamp: 6:3:1665012634 X-MAIL-INFO:00585831993575edcd7c28319d2811ec413c4928291945659929493c29d82939e1f84c0c581d31f931a5998111f1bc81ed35d1f8bd2d3d7c7595bc289861383801a85cb58848f8b5dd7d4d694561694d X-UNTD-OriginStamp: L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkBUbHiFnKeIaKigdV5XJd8k2vr/VP9uvxA== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m12.lax.untd.com|alwick@juno.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_0d48.5919.2361 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What a thorough analysis Ed. I really enjoyed reading it. I always consider the next step is to do some simple tests that prove these conclusions. Only because too much reliance on theory often leads to lost perspective. Well, that's been my experience anyway. In spite of Dave's experience, I really find that higher boiling point real attractive. I try to encourage guys flying unknown cooling systems to take advantage of the safety margin you get from boiling point. Even though I don't use Evans myself. I consider boil over the number one coolant risk item. Do you guys have anyone flying with evans? Thanks for sharing your analysis. -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:31:48 -0500 "Ed Anderson" writes: Things have been a little dull on the list, since Dave reported on his "adventure". Also, I recently received a phone call from a rotary enthusiast (not on the list) about the use of Evans NPG (Propylene Glycol) in rotary engines. I did a bit of research and my conclusion was the rotary engine was not well suited to benefit from the properties of NPG in its stock coolant system configuration. That the use of 100% glycol would require increased coolant flow rates by 10-15% and more coolant pump power would be required (hard to quantify this one but it appears in the range of 15-25% more). Also the hazard of fire due to a leak on hot exhaust would be increased (this would apply to a 100% mixture of either Ethylene or Propylene glycol). There are benefits to using NPG, however, in my opinion the effort needed to change the rotary cooling configuration to safely use it makes the cost effectiveness of the conversion questionable. The apparent success of Evans NPG in reciprocating engines is not in conflict with my assessment about its suitability for the rotary engine. Attached is some supporting (I believe) facts to support this opinion (and that is all it is). Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html ----__JNP_000_0d48.5919.2361 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What a thorough analysis Ed. I really enjoyed reading it. I always = consider=20 the next step is to do some simple tests that prove these conclusions. Only= =20 because too much reliance on theory often leads to lost perspective. Well,= =20 that's been my experience anyway.
 
In spite of Dave's experience, I really find that higher boiling point= real=20 attractive. I try to encourage guys flying unknown cooling systems to take= =20 advantage of the safety margin you get from boiling point. Even though I=20 don't use Evans myself.  I consider boil over the number one = coolant=20 risk item.
 
Do you guys have anyone flying with evans?
 
Thanks for sharing your analysis.

-al wick
Artificial=20 intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+= =20 hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru=20 install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info:
http:= //www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
 
On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:31:48 -0500 "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>= =20 writes:
Things have been a little dull on the list, since= Dave=20 reported on his "adventure". 
 
 Also, I recently received a phone call from= a=20 rotary enthusiast (not on the list) about the use of Evans NPG (Propylene= =20 Glycol) in rotary engines.  I did a bit of research and my = conclusion was=20 the rotary engine was not well suited to benefit from the properties= of=20 NPG in its stock coolant system configuration.  
 
 That the use of 100% glycol would  = require=20 increased coolant flow rates by 10-15% and more coolant pump power = would=20 be required (hard to quantify this one but it appears in the range of 15-= 25%=20 more).  Also the hazard of fire due to a leak on hot exhaust would = be=20 increased (this would apply to a 100% mixture of either Ethylene or = Propylene=20 glycol).  There are benefits to using NPG, however, in my opinion = the=20 effort needed to change  the rotary cooling configuration to = safely=20 use it makes the cost effectiveness of the conversion=20 questionable.
 
The apparent success of Evans NPG in = reciprocating=20 engines is not in conflict with my assessment about its suitability for = the=20 rotary engine.
 
Attached is some supporting (I believe) facts to = support=20 this opinion (and that is all it is).
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
= Matthews,=20 NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence in= =20 cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on=20 engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, = Risk=20 assessment, Glass panel design=20 info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
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