X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from misav06.sasknet.sk.ca ([142.165.20.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.6) with ESMTP id 931427 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:07:30 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=142.165.20.170; envelope-from=hjjohnson@sasktel.net Received: from bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca ([142.165.72.22]) by misav06 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:06:38 -0600 Received: from sasktel.net ([192.168.234.97]) by bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (SaskTel eMessaging Service) with ESMTP id <0ITA00GJ4Q32TFD0@bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:06:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.234.25] (Forwarded-For: [24.72.101.251]) by cgmail1.sasknet.sk.ca (mshttpd); Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:14:05 -0600 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:14:05 -0600 From: Heidi Johnson Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Auto fuel To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-id: <5d24b69a11145.43ce14ed@sasktel.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.1 HotFix 0.11 (built Jan 28 2005) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal

Yup, I've heard of the add water test to see if you have alcohol in your fuel, test. However, it's my understanding, that the combination of water and alcohol increases the strength of/or changes it to create a more caustic [ is that the right word?] substance. Its been said on other forum's that alcohol in its own state is relatively safe and won't attack the epoxy's or poly's, however the true proof is when its mixed with some water and left to sit. We all know alcohol has a great affinity for water.. and rarely in a fuel tank will you find zero water and with the alcohol mized in you get this problem. I'm no chemist, and I'm currently working of memory here as my email archives are at home. When I get a sec I'll have to go look it up, but if memory serves me correctly.. there was someone else who did the same test, just with water included and stated they hadn't found a suitable fuel tank sealer or liner [meaning some type of resin coating] which stood up to this combination. Again thats all from memory.

Jarrett Johnson

> No, never heard that theory before. I've had auto fuel in my tanks
> sinceday one. Alcohol has great affinity for water, real quick to
> absorb it.
> That's how you test for alcohol content. Add water, swirl. So
> that's the
> other less scientific test.
>
> -al wick
>
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:06:47 -0600 Heidi Johnson
> <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>writes:
> Al, were these experiments done at some point with some level of water
> included in the fuel? It's my understanding that with water mixed
> in it
> becomes an even bigger Bear to contain due to some chemical reaction.
> Curious...but still building in Fiberglass...
> Jarrett Johnson
> > No, I wasn't speaking of polyester. You can buy epoxies of
> different
> > ratios. I'm told by expert (Gary Hunter) that all epoxies which
> use
> > ratios like 80/20 have significantly better mechanical and
> chemical
> > properties. This is measurable, and agrees with my and other
> peoples
> > tests. Like I say, I tested all of the fuel tank components in
> various
> > batches of alcohol fuel for years (you know how I don't like
> design
> > assumptions). None of the components were affected. The only
> exception
> > was when I exposed 50/50 epoxy mix to fuel. It slowly got mushy.
> >
> > I have seen fuel tanks destroyed, leaking like a sieve from
> > exposure to
> > alcohol fuel. One reportedly had old version of proseal inside.
> It
> > completely peeled off tank inside. Clogged fuel port. Forced
> > landing. If
> > memory serves me correct, it also had poly that degraded by
> > erosion. It
> > looked like someone had etched the poly out of the tank.
> >
> >
> > -al wick
> > Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock
> > Subaru 2.5
> > N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
> > Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel
> > design info:
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:07:41 +1000 "george lendich"
> > <lendich@optusnet.com.au> writes:
> > Al,
> > You must be speaking about Polyester as Epoxy must absolutely
> > maintain a
> > strict ration mix, as per manufacturers instructions, to allow
> proper
> > molecule to molecule bonding of the hardener and the resin.
> > Polyester on
> > the other hand has flexibility in that, more hardener promotes
> > hardeningsooner.
> > George (down under)
> > I tested the hell out of that. No effect. Years of exposure to
> > differentbatches of known alcohol. I understand that if you use
> a
> > resin of high
> > proportions of hardener to resin, it's resistant. If you use
> > 50/50, it
> > isn't. I had 50/50 get soft from fuel exposure.
> > This info consistent with all the other guys that did the same
> test.
> >
> >
> > -al wick
> > Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock
> > Subaru 2.5
> > N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
> > Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel
> > design info:
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
> >
> > On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:21:34 -0600 "William"
> <wschertz@ispwest.com>
> > writes:
> > It will make it less attractive for those with fiberglass tanks.
> > Alcohol/gas mixes are more aggressive than either gas or alcohol
> > alone.Bill Schertz
> > KIS Cruiser # 4045
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Downing
> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:17 PM
> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Auto fuel
> >
> >
> > By the Farm Bureau Paper it is stated that Wisconsin has passed
> a law
> > that all 87 no lead will contain 10% alcohol and that nine other
> > statesare considering it. It didn't mention the other no lead
> > grades. Here in
> > Michigan it is under consideration at this time, and there is a
> good
> > chance it pass. Other than cutting the power some what, is
> going to
> > effect the operation of the rotary in some other way. JohnD
> >
> >
> >
> > -al wick
> > Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock
> > Subaru 2.5
> > N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
> > Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel
> > design info:
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
> >
> --
>
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>
>
>
>
> -al wick
> Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock
> Subaru 2.5
> N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
> Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel
> design info:
> http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
>