X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com ([64.136.22.78] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.6) with SMTP id 928289 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:51:55 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.22.78; envelope-from=jbker@juno.com Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB6ZFWVAPQD2P2 for (sender ); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jbker@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LEUBACXJ; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:49:42 PST To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:46:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Momentary pucker X's 3 Message-ID: <20060116.074615.3720.1.JBKER@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_36fd.46f2.7f1c X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-8,10-11,14-15,22-23,25-26,28-31,33-35,39-40,43-54,57-61,63-70,72-77,81-82,90-95,98-111,113-133,134-32767 From: WALTER B KERR X-ContentStamp: 40:20:841696581 X-MAIL-INFO:0e241d991d50d4a45099341499d544d06139e13df4458db03d3970a970a49d8d9170d0ad8019e0a051c0a0ad60e56009d524d134e5f4dd84d11444fd9d9d557d41c521e4cd8081c9e429e0e045c9a07174c0f010f02d2584f490592904e5d90db10c0c4415f04d4081254d691435b4d5b1b435b074e0818d458935702939f970b06531a1246d810cc1b0dd8434d5441d449d2594a4c414996d645555cdb9fd842d857dade5f9b0c59d19c0c951c974b074c0f06095e92969007dc4a0c0d9e92d712de92575c575610040eda9959511d0351139 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: Y+Mfppm2QyGfnY/dq+iW1Ybz37DxSHVsVQ4YT4/bKagS0Hz0PlO7Xw== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|jbker@juno.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_36fd.46f2.7f1c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ed, Sorry to hear about your hangar, but happy you were not at home. You seem to have your share of good news , bad news stories. Yea, I'm thinking that when you load the engine with more torque at mid rpm range with this prop that you can not lean. Had riched up some after the first hic-up and it still did it later. Ran the engine up thursday afternoon and it has been stumbling momentarily when I do the primary/secondary injector check preflight. Did it at lower than normal power setting and it was grumbling so pushed throttle up and it totally quit. This was when I turned primary injector off and doubled fuel. It only starting doing this recently. Tried same thing with secondary off and it ran just like on both so am suspicious of a secondary injector. Plan on rerunning this test today and try to watch EGT indicators and see if one rotor falls off when it is stumbling. Will also then put new plugs in to see if it does anything, but don't think so. Bernie On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:12:28 -0500 "Ed Anderson" writes: Hi Bernie, Just wanted to let you know that on the trip down to Shady Bend, when I leaned the engine waayyyy back, I get what I refer to as a "lean miss". This is down around around 5 GPH. It occurs more frequently the leaner you trim the mixture. I don't recall the status of your mixture when you were having the hic-ups but if you were running very lean - it well could have been simply "lean-miss" and richening the mixture should make it go - a - way. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: WALTER B KERR To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Momentary pucker X's 3 Hi Bobby, With this new prop, absorbs lots more power, that is a possibility but Tracy and I kinda ruled it out this morning. When I fly next, will try to fly at about the same conditions and record some data. Bernie ============================= On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:43:23 -0600 "Bobby J. Hughes" writes: Was the engine rpms close to the injector staging point? Bobby From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:33 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Momentary pucker X's 3 I had the same thought but the scenario is wrong for this. The "miss" would happen only at full throttle (usually during climb) and never at cruise or low power if slipping input shaft were the cause. This is of course based on one example but logically, that is what you would expect. I do intend to add data logging to the EM2 & EC2 but in my experience so far, it would take a VERY sophisticated diagnostic to detect this type of problem. None of the aviation type data logging systems currently on the market will do it. The BMW engine controller (and probably others) can do it however. The listing of engine fault codes is over 200 pages long. It can detect and log a single cylinder miss and tell you which one it was. There are probably more engineering man hours in that controller than I have left to live. Tracy Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Momentary pucker X's 3 Just a lurker here, but could it have been the shaft in the psru, slipping and rewelding, as just stated on the threads? Duane Service, Florida -----Original Message----- >From: Charlie England >Sent: Jan 11, 2006 6:08 PM >To: Rotary motors in aircraft >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Momentary pucker X's 3 > >WALTER B KERR wrote: > >>Flying around the neighborhood today and about 30 minutes into flight >>there was a momentary hic-up. Everything on monitor looked normal, so >>richened a tad and continued flying. About 5 minutes later, same thing >>second verse, and then a third time. Went to full power and rich and it >>did not repeat. No miss while descending to land or while taxing in. Ran >>up a full static for a minute on the ground and everything appeared >>normal. >> >>Any suggestions??? >> >>Bernie, not wanting to start to Lakeland with an unknow problem! >> >> > >Nothing constructive to offer, but is there a Lyc part hiding under the >cowl somewhere? > > >-- >Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ----__JNP_000_36fd.46f2.7f1c Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ed,
 
Sorry to hear about your hangar, but happy you were not at home. You = seem=20 to have your share of good news , bad news stories.
 
Yea, I'm thinking that when you load the engine with more torque at = mid rpm=20 range with this prop that you can not lean. Had riched up some after the = first=20 hic-up and it still did it later.
 
Ran the engine up thursday afternoon and it has been stumbling = momentarily=20 when I do the primary/secondary injector check preflight. Did it at lower = than=20 normal power setting and it was grumbling so pushed throttle up and it = totally=20 quit. This was when I turned primary injector off and doubled fuel. It only= =20 starting doing this recently. Tried same thing with secondary off and it = ran=20 just like on both so am suspicious of a secondary injector.
 
Plan on rerunning this test today and try to watch EGT indicators and = see=20 if one rotor falls off when it is stumbling.
 
Will also then put new plugs in to see if it does anything, but don't = think=20 so.
 
Bernie
 
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:12:28 -0500 "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>= =20 writes:
Hi Bernie,
 
Just wanted to let you know that on the = trip down=20 to Shady Bend, when I leaned the engine waayyyy back, I get what I refer = to as=20 a "lean miss".  This is down around around 5 GPH.  It occurs = more=20 frequently the leaner you trim the mixture. 
 
I don't recall the status of your = mixture when=20 you were having the hic-ups but if you were running very lean - it well = could=20 have been simply "lean-miss" and richening the mixture should make it go = - a -=20 way.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
= From:=20 WALTER B KERR<= /A>=20
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006= 10:44=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Momentary=20 pucker X's 3

Hi Bobby,
 
With this new prop, absorbs lots more power, that is a possibility= but=20 Tracy and I kinda ruled it out this morning. When I fly next, will try = to=20 fly at about the same conditions and record some data.
 
Bernie
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
Was the = engine rpms=20 close to the injector staging point?
&= nbsp;
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy=20 Crook
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:33 AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Momentary=20 pucker X's 3

I had the same thought but the scenario is wrong for this. = The=20 "miss" would happen only at full throttle (usually during climb) and = never=20 at cruise or low power if slipping input shaft were the cause.  = This=20 is of course based on one example but logically, that is what = you=20 would expect.
 
I do intend to add data logging to the EM2 & EC2 but in my=20 experience so far, it would take a VERY sophisticated diagnostic to = detect=20 this type of problem.  None of the aviation type data logging = systems=20 currently on the market will do it.  The BMW engine controller (= and=20 probably others) can do it however.  The listing of engine fault= =20 codes is over 200 pages long.  It can detect and log a single=20 cylinder miss and tell you which one it was.   There are=20 probably more engineering man hours in that controller than I = have=20 left to live.
 
Tracy
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Momentary=20 pucker X's 3

Just a lurker here, but could it have been the shaft= in=20 the psru, slipping and rewelding, as just stated on the threads?&= nbsp;=20 Duane Service, Florida

-----Original Message-----
>= From:=20 Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net= >
>Sent:=20 Jan 11, 2006 6:08 PM
>To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline= .net>
>Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Momentary pucker X's 3
>
>WALTER B KERR= =20 wrote:
>
>>Flying around the neighborhood today and = about=20 30 minutes into flight
>>there was a momentary hic-up.=20 Everything on monitor looked normal, so
>>richened a tad = and=20 continued flying. About 5 minutes later, same thing
>>= second=20 verse, and then a third time. Went to full power and rich and=20 it
>>did not repeat. No miss while descending to land or = while=20 taxing in. Ran
>>up a full static for a minute on the = ground=20 and everything appeared
>>normal.
>>
>>= Any=20 suggestions???
>>
>>Bernie, not wanting to start = to=20 Lakeland with an unknow problem!
>> =20
>>
>
>Nothing constructive to offer, but is = there=20 a Lyc part hiding under the
>cowl=20 somewhere?
>
>
>--
>Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/>Archive=20 and UnSub:   http://mail= .lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/


--
Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/Archive=20 and UnSub:   http://mail= .lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
 
 
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