X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.69] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.6) with ESMTP id 919720 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 23:45:58 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.69; envelope-from=sladerj@bellsouth.net Received: from ibm63aec.bellsouth.net ([72.144.102.32]) by imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060110044514.KIYT3622.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm63aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 23:45:14 -0500 Received: from JSLADE ([72.144.102.32]) by ibm63aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060110044512.DYGP29460.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@JSLADE> for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 23:45:12 -0500 From: "John Slade" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Runaway Turbos Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 23:47:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0972_01C61577.033F00F0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0972_01C61577.033F00F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New element or old - it could be the element's capacity to pass fluid at a certain rate. Try it with the element removed and see if you see any difference. -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Bulent Aliev Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:42 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Runaway Turbos I have a new element on the shelf, but i doubt it. I'll see if increase of the injector rates will change things. Buly On Jan 9, 2006, at 11:39 PM, John Slade wrote: Buly, It's just possible that you have the same problem that I've been struggling with for almost two years. Fuel flow. Now my filters are clean I don't have the run away boost problem any more. Could those paper element filters be restricting max flow? John -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Bulent Aliev Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:22 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Runaway Turbos I ran yesterday my engine with John inside the plane and noticed something that John said is happening to his stock turbo too. After 30" of MP pressure the turbo sometimes goes to 40-46", but suddenly the MAP jumps to 50-60. It happened today also? Another thing my engine is running very lean at high MAP with the mixture knob all the way rich? My exhaust inside changed from being wet black to almost shiny clean. The white prop has no trace of carbon. I think i should change the injector programing on mode 3 ? I wander if Dave or steve had similar experience? Bulent "Buly" Aliev http://tinyurl.com/dcy36 On Jan 9, 2006, at 10:05 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Thanks, Chris John, that is the filter I use as a "coarse" filter before the fuel pumps. Its the one with the stainless steel mesh not the sintered bronze. It has worked fine for me for over 7 years. Easy to take apart and clean. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Sargent To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:37 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Earls in-line fuel filters John, Below you mention using “small Earl's in-line filters with the conical (brass?) filter blocks.” These sound like the sintered bronze filters that Tracy recommends not using as they become blocked more easily than mesh screens. The sintered bronze is also hard to see if blocked, which it sounds like you experienced. Earl’s has one type of filter that comes in either sintered bronze or stainless steel mesh (field cleanable). Here’s a link that describes the stainless steel mesh version: http://www.importevolution.com/product_info.php?products_id=3465 <000901c61592$c6983470$2402a8c0> Chris -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of John Slade Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:34 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Earls in-line fuel filters I've been having fuel flow problems on one side for a while. Runup would give me full static on either pump. I take off on both. Some time later in the flight here's what happens: I'm be running on left pump only I increase throttle to climb mixture goes off the scale lean engine falters I switch on the right pump (which feeds from a separate tank), mixture comes back up and engine runs normally. I have the small Earl's in-line filters with the conical (brass?) filter blocks. They always "look" clean when I take them apart, but yesterday I tried blowing through them. They were very restrictive, especially the left one. After I clean them with high pressure air they flow much better, but I'm beginning to think these filters are not good for our purpose. They're too small and too easily blocked. Additionally there's no nut on the center section so they're hard to get apart at both ends. I think I'll get larger canister type filters with a drain like Buly's. Buly - where did you get those? Got a part number? Anyone else have a filter part number they can suggest? John Turbo Rotary Cozy IV 47.5 hrs. ------=_NextPart_000_0972_01C61577.033F00F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
New=20 element or old - it could be the element's capacity to pass fluid at a = certain=20 rate. Try it with the element removed and see if you see any difference. =
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Bulent=20 Aliev
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:42 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Runaway=20 Turbos

I=20 have a new element on the shelf, but i doubt it. I'll see if increase = of the=20 injector rates will change things.
Buly

On Jan 9, 2006, at 11:39 PM, John Slade wrote:
Buly,
It's just possible that you have the same problem that I've = been=20 struggling with for almost two years. Fuel flow.
Now my filters are clean I don't have the run away boost = problem any=20 more.
Could those paper element filters be restricting max=20 flow?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]On=20 Behalf Of Bulent Aliev
Sent: Monday, January 09, = 2006 10:22=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Runaway Turbos

I ran yesterday my engine with = John=20 inside the plane and noticed something that John said is happening = to his=20 stock turbo too. After 30" of MP pressure the turbo sometimes goes = to=20 40-46", but suddenly the MAP jumps to 50-60. It happened today = also? =20
Another thing my engine is running very lean at high MAP with = the=20 mixture knob all the way  rich? My exhaust inside changed = from being=20 wet black to almost shiny clean. The white prop has no trace of = carbon. I=20 think i should change the injector programing on mode 3 ? I wander = if Dave=20 or steve had similar experience?

Bulent "Buly" Aliev
http://tinyurl.com/dcy36

On Jan 9, 2006, at 10:05 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Thanks, Chris
 
John, that is the filter I use as a = "coarse"=20 filter before the fuel pumps.  Its the one with the = stainless steel=20 mesh not the sintered bronze.  It has worked fine for me = for over 7=20 years.  Easy to take apart and clean.
 
Ed
----- Original = Message=20 -----
From:=20 Chris=20 Sargent
Sent:=20 Monday, January 09, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Earls in-line fuel filters

John,

Below you = mention using=20 =93small=20 Earl's in-line filters with the conical (brass?) filter=20 blocks.=94  = These sound like = the=20 sintered bronze filters that Tracy recommends not using as = they become=20 blocked more easily than mesh screens.  = The=20 sintered bronze is also hard to see if blocked, which it = sounds like=20 you experienced. 

Earl=92s has one = type of=20 filter that comes in either sintered bronze or stainless steel = mesh=20 (field cleanable).  = Here=92s a link = that=20 describes the stainless steel mesh version:

http://www.importevolution.com/product_info.php?products_id=3D= 3465=20  

=

<000901c61592$c6983470$2402a8c0>


Chris

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]On=20 Behalf Of John = SladeSent:=20 Monday, January 09, 2006 9:34 AMTo:=20 Rotary motors in aircraftSubject:=20 [FlyRotary] Earls in-line fuel = filters

I've=20 been having fuel flow problems on one side for a=20 while.

Runup=20 would give me full static on either pump. I take off on=20 both.

Some=20 time later in the flight here's what=20 happens:

   =20 I'm be running on left pump only

   =20 I increase throttle to climb

   =20 mixture goes off the scale lean

   =20 engine falters

   =20 I switch on the right pump (which feeds from a separate tank), = mixture=20 comes back up and engine runs = normally.

I=20 have the small Earl's in-line filters with the conical = (brass?) filter=20 blocks. They always "look" clean when I take them apart, but = yesterday=20 I tried blowing through them. They were very restrictive, = especially=20 the left one. After I clean them with high pressure air they = flow much=20 better, but I'm beginning to think these filters are not good = for our=20 purpose. They're too small and too easily blocked. = Additionally=20 there's no nut on the center section so they're hard to get = apart at=20 both ends.

I=20 think I'll get larger canister type filters with a drain = like=20 Buly's. Buly - where did you get those? Got a part=20 number?

Anyone=20 else have a filter part number they can=20 suggest?

John

Turbo=20 Rotary Cozy IV

47.5=20 hrs.



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