X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [129.116.87.143] (HELO MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c3) with ESMTP id 741833 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:17:51 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=129.116.87.143; envelope-from=mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5C532.C351CE89" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Insurance Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:17:06 -0500 Message-ID: <87DBA06C9A5CB84B80439BA09D86E69E0293C41A@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Insurance Thread-Index: AcXFMMCBP5Y0k65UQPmkI92jgGnoBwAANNiw From: "Mark R Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5C532.C351CE89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed,=20 I had a similar experience with SkySmith when shopping for builder's risk coverage. They asked about the specifics of the rotary installation and were satisfied with knowing that I was using Tracy's controller, psru, etc. During the communications, SkySmith informed me that I would need to have my a/c inspected by an authorized Lancair representative. Its just now that Lancair has started to define the pass/fail criteria of the factory inspections. Up to now there have been no prohibitions against auto-conversions and no requirement to use authorized Lancair and/or certified parts. I guess this is what you can expect when an attorney purchases the company. =20 Mark S. (not sure where to go from here) ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Insurance =20 Tough to know what is going on. I dropped AVEMCO this year because the premium was over $2500 for $1M liability and $60K hull. I got insurance through SkySmith with AIG for a little over $1400 for the same coverage. SkySmith is aware of the rotary community and once I told him I was using Tracy Crook's equipment - it made a difference. Also the fact that I had over 250 hours flying time on the rotary made a difference. =20 =20 But, if AIG has since changed its policy then his hands may be tied. It seems that after ever huge event adversely affecting the insurance industry (Katrina and Rita come to mind as well as 9/11) the industry looks to tighten up its belts regarding loses (or areas it consider more risky) by being more restrictive on aircraft insurance (and rates on aircraft, car, home, etc also increase even though their risk has not changed). =20 Just hope AIG will continue my insurance next year. =20 Ed A =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Insurance =20 I know this is a yucky subject, but it seems this issue just won't go away, and actually seems to be getting worse. I was curious what the other rotary builders are doing for insurance. Seems there are new rules at AIG concerning Lancairs. I was curious to hear if AIG has implemented similar rules for the RV's and other experimental a/c. They now won't insure a Lancair without an "approved Lancair inspection", although there isn't an "approved" Lancair inspector list available. The item that really bothers me is #2 below which states "no auto engines, no radically modified aircraft engines, etc." =20 =20 I may have to build my own airstrip so I'll have a place to keep my plane. =20 =20 Mark S. (ref. posting from the LML list below) =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of N301ES Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:01 PM To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Re: Insurance =20 Not a bad quote Jeff but I got a quote before Lancair got too involved: =20 =09 $300k hull, $1 million liability, 10 hr instruction and 20 hr solo - for $4,915. =20 =09 After Lancair got into it hot and heavy about 6 months ago the same coverage jumped to $5,758 and had added the restriction of paying for a factory inspection.=20 =09 =09 Now the new restrictions from Lancair (listed in their e-mail today) include if: =20 =09 =09 1) building your kit with us or if building at home, having a Lancair approved inspector look over your work; =20 =20 2) using only Lancair approved and/or certified parts in the construction of your kit (no auto engines, no radically modified aircraft engines, etc.); =20 =20 3) Having a Lancair approved ABDAR inspect and issue an airworthiness certificate (the reason for which is that we believe an individual who has extensive Lancair experience will be better able to detect deficiencies in the builder's work); =20 =20 4) Attending our training program provided by Pete Zaccagnino;=20 =20 5) Having the first condition inspection performed by Lancair or one of its approved builders. =09 I had already planned to continue my training with Pete for the 10+ hours needed to learn the plane, so that is for me a non-issue. But where is Lancair's list of approved initial inspectors, of approved DARs, of approved builders, and of approved parts? I've been looking and I have only a few months left to get them lined up. What if I or other builders have constructed their planes using parts not approved by Lancair? (Perhaps if you bought it from Spruce, it ain't approved?) Might not be a major issue at the end but it sure is a concern now. =20 =09 =09 My question is - if Lancair has negotiated a better program with AIG, how much will I save by abiding by the new restrictions? So far it looks like I'll be paying more. =20 =09 =09 Robert M. Simon, ES-P N301ES =09 =09 =09 =09 VTAILJEFF@aol.com wrote: =09 If I get recurrent training from an approved instructor and a one time inspection of my aircraft from Lancair then my premium is $6,086 for $300k hull and $1 mil/ $100k seat. This is less than half of what Global is charging. They will go higher on hull if I substantiate it with an equipment list. AIG is the underwriter. I just got a quote for hull & liability insurance on my IVP. Falcon quoted $13,675 for $400k hull and $1 mil/$100K seat liability. Global is the underwriter. I have been with them these last few years with similar premiums. =20 <>=20 =20 Thanks Joe Bartels and all involved in making this happen. =20 Jeff Edwards ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5C532.C351CE89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ed,

I had a similar experience with = SkySmith when shopping for builder’s risk coverage.  They asked about = the specifics of the rotary installation and were satisfied with knowing = that I was using Tracy’s controller, psru, etc.  During the communications, SkySmith = informed me that I would need to have my a/c inspected by an authorized Lancair representative.  Its just now that Lancair has started to define = the pass/fail criteria of the factory inspections.  Up to now there = have been no prohibitions against auto-conversions and no requirement to use = authorized Lancair and/or certified parts.  I guess this is what you can = expect when an attorney purchases the company.

 

Mark = S.

(not sure where to go from = here)

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Thursday, September = 29, 2005 3:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Insurance

 

Tough to know what is going on.  I dropped AVEMCO this year because the premium was over $2500 = for $1M liability and $60K hull.  I got insurance through SkySmith with AIG = for a little over $1400 for the same coverage.  SkySmith is aware of the = rotary community and once I told him I was using Tracy Crook's equipment - it = made a difference. Also the fact that I had over 250 hours flying time on = the rotary made a difference.  

 

 But, if AIG has since = changed its policy then his hands may be tied.  It seems that after ever = huge event adversely affecting the insurance industry (Katrina and Rita come = to mind as well as 9/11) the industry looks to tighten up its belts regarding = loses (or areas it consider more risky) by being more restrictive on aircraft = insurance (and rates on aircraft, car, home, etc also increase even though their = risk has not changed).

 

Just hope AIG will continue = my insurance next year.

 

Ed A

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Mark R Steitle =

Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:32 = PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Insurance

 

I know this is a yucky subject, but = it seems this issue just won’t go away, and actually seems to be = getting worse.  I was curious what the other rotary builders are doing for insurance.  Seems there are new rules at AIG concerning Lancairs. =  I was curious to hear if AIG has implemented similar rules for the = RV’s and other experimental a/c. They now won’t insure a Lancair without an “approved Lancair inspection”, although there isn’t an = “approved” Lancair inspector list available.  The item that really bothers me = is #2 below which states “no auto engines, no radically modified aircraft engines, etc.”  =

 

I may have to build my own airstrip = so I’ll have a place to keep my plane.  =

 

Mark = S.

(ref. posting from the LML list = below)

 

 

From: Lancair Mailing = List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of N301ES
Sent: Wednesday, = September 28, 2005 10:01 PM
To: Lancair Mailing List
Subject: [LML] Re: = Insurance

 

Not a bad = quote Jeff but I got a quote before Lancair got too involved: 

$300k hull, $1 million liability, 10 hr instruction and 20 hr solo - for $4,915. 

After Lancair got into it hot and heavy about 6 months ago the same = coverage jumped to $5,758 and had added the restriction of paying for a factory inspection.


Now the new restrictions from Lancair (listed in their e-mail today) = include if:  

1) building your kit with us or if building at =
home, having a Lancair approved inspector look over your work;  =

 
2)  using only Lancair =
approved and/or certified parts in the construction of your kit (no auto =
engines, no radically modified aircraft engines, etc.);  =

 
3) Having a Lancair approved =
ABDAR inspect and issue an airworthiness certificate (the reason for =
which is that we believe an individual who has extensive Lancair =
experience will be better able to detect deficiencies in the builder's =
work);  
 
4) Attending our training =
program provided by Pete Zaccagnino; =

 
5) Having the first =
condition inspection performed by Lancair or one of its approved =
builders.


I had already planned to continue my training with Pete for the 10+ = hours needed to learn the plane, so that is for me a non-issue.  But = where is Lancair's list of approved initial inspectors, of approved DARs, of = approved builders, and of approved parts?   I've been looking and I = have only a few months left to get them lined up.  What if I or other = builders have constructed their planes using parts not approved by Lancair? (Perhaps = if you bought it from Spruce, it ain't approved?)   Might not be a major = issue at the end but it sure is a concern now. 


My question is - if Lancair has negotiated a better program with AIG, = how much will I save by abiding by the new restrictions?  So far it looks = like I'll be paying more. 


Robert M. Simon,  ES-P N301ES




VTAILJEFF@aol.com wrote:

If I get recurrent training from an approved instructor and a one time inspection of my aircraft from Lancair then my premium is = $6,086 for $300k hull and $1 mil/ $100k seat. This is less than half of = what Global is charging. They will go higher on hull if I substantiate it with an = equipment list. AIG is the underwriter. I just got a quote for hull & = liability insurance on my IVP. Falcon quoted $13,675 for $400k hull and $1 = mil/$100K seat liability. Global is the underwriter. I have been with them these last = few years with similar premiums.  =

<>

 

Thanks = Joe Bartels and all involved in making this happen.

 

Jeff = Edwards

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