X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.103] (HELO ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c3) with ESMTP id 741832 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:02:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.103; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-065-188-083-049.carolina.res.rr.com [65.188.83.49]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j8TK1h1v007350 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c5c530$9ff2aab0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Insurance Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:01:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5C50F.18A7D240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5C50F.18A7D240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tough to know what is going on. I dropped AVEMCO this year because the = premium was over $2500 for $1M liability and $60K hull. I got insurance = through SkySmith with AIG for a little over $1400 for the same coverage. = SkySmith is aware of the rotary community and once I told him I was = using Tracy Crook's equipment - it made a difference. Also the fact that = I had over 250 hours flying time on the rotary made a difference. =20 But, if AIG has since changed its policy then his hands may be tied. = It seems that after ever huge event adversely affecting the insurance = industry (Katrina and Rita come to mind as well as 9/11) the industry = looks to tighten up its belts regarding loses (or areas it consider more = risky) by being more restrictive on aircraft insurance (and rates on = aircraft, car, home, etc also increase even though their risk has not = changed). Just hope AIG will continue my insurance next year. Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Insurance I know this is a yucky subject, but it seems this issue just won't go = away, and actually seems to be getting worse. I was curious what the = other rotary builders are doing for insurance. Seems there are new = rules at AIG concerning Lancairs. I was curious to hear if AIG has = implemented similar rules for the RV's and other experimental a/c. They = now won't insure a Lancair without an "approved Lancair inspection", = although there isn't an "approved" Lancair inspector list available. = The item that really bothers me is #2 below which states "no auto = engines, no radically modified aircraft engines, etc." =20 =20 I may have to build my own airstrip so I'll have a place to keep my = plane. =20 =20 Mark S. (ref. posting from the LML list below) =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = N301ES Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:01 PM To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Re: Insurance =20 Not a bad quote Jeff but I got a quote before Lancair got too = involved: =20 $300k hull, $1 million liability, 10 hr instruction and 20 hr solo - = for $4,915. =20 After Lancair got into it hot and heavy about 6 months ago the same = coverage jumped to $5,758 and had added the restriction of paying for a = factory inspection.=20 Now the new restrictions from Lancair (listed in their e-mail today) = include if: =20 1) building your kit with us or if building at home, having a Lancair = approved inspector look over your work; 2) using only Lancair = approved and/or certified parts in the construction of your kit (no auto = engines, no radically modified aircraft engines, etc.); 3) Having a = Lancair approved ABDAR inspect and issue an airworthiness certificate = (the reason for which is that we believe an individual who has extensive = Lancair experience will be better able to detect deficiencies in the = builder's work); 4) Attending our training program provided by Pete = Zaccagnino; 5) Having the first condition inspection performed by = Lancair or one of its approved builders. I had already planned to continue my training with Pete for the 10+ = hours needed to learn the plane, so that is for me a non-issue. But = where is Lancair's list of approved initial inspectors, of approved = DARs, of approved builders, and of approved parts? I've been looking = and I have only a few months left to get them lined up. What if I or = other builders have constructed their planes using parts not approved by = Lancair? (Perhaps if you bought it from Spruce, it ain't approved?) = Might not be a major issue at the end but it sure is a concern now. =20 My question is - if Lancair has negotiated a better program with AIG, = how much will I save by abiding by the new restrictions? So far it = looks like I'll be paying more. =20 Robert M. Simon, ES-P N301ES VTAILJEFF@aol.com wrote: If I get recurrent training from an approved instructor and a one time = inspection of my aircraft from Lancair then my premium is $6,086 for = $300k hull and $1 mil/ $100k seat. This is less than half of what Global = is charging. They will go higher on hull if I substantiate it with an = equipment list. AIG is the underwriter. I just got a quote for hull & = liability insurance on my IVP. Falcon quoted $13,675 for $400k hull and = $1 mil/$100K seat liability. Global is the underwriter. I have been with = them these last few years with similar premiums. =20 <>=20 =20 Thanks Joe Bartels and all involved in making this happen. =20 Jeff Edwards ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5C50F.18A7D240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tough to know what is going on.  I dropped = AVEMCO=20 this year because the premium was over $2500 for $1M liability and $60K=20 hull.  I got insurance through SkySmith with AIG for a little over = $1400=20 for the same coverage.  SkySmith is aware of the rotary community = and once=20 I told him I was using Tracy Crook's equipment - it made a = difference. Also=20 the fact that I had over 250 hours flying time on the rotary made a=20 difference.  
 
 But, if AIG has since changed its policy = then his=20 hands may be tied.  It seems that after ever huge event adversely = affecting=20 the insurance industry (Katrina and Rita come to mind as well as 9/11) = the=20 industry looks to tighten up its belts regarding loses (or areas it = consider=20 more risky) by being more restrictive on aircraft insurance (and rates = on=20 aircraft, car, home, etc also increase even though their risk has not=20 changed).
 
Just hope AIG will continue my insurance next=20 year.
 
Ed A
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark R Steitle =
Sent: Thursday, September 29, = 2005 3:32=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Insurance

I know this = is a=20 yucky subject, but it seems this issue just won=92t go away, and = actually seems=20 to be getting worse.  I was curious what the other rotary = builders are=20 doing for insurance.  Seems there are new rules at AIG concerning = Lancairs.  I was curious to hear if AIG has implemented similar = rules for=20 the RV=92s and other experimental a/c. They now won=92t insure a = Lancair without=20 an =93approved Lancair inspection=94, although there isn=92t an = =93approved=94 Lancair=20 inspector list available.  The item that really bothers me is #2 = below=20 which states =93no=20 auto engines, no = radically=20 modified aircraft engines, etc.=94 

 

I may have = to build=20 my own airstrip so I=92ll have a place to keep my plane. =20

 

Mark=20 S.

(ref. = posting from=20 the LML list below)

 

 

From:=20 Lancair Mailing List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of=20 N301ES
Sent:=20 Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:01 PM
To: Lancair=20 Mailing List
Subject: [LML] Re:=20 Insurance

 

Not a bad quote Jeff but I got a quote = before Lancair=20 got too involved: 

$300k hull, $1 million liability, 10 = hr=20 instruction and 20 hr solo - for $4,915. 

After Lancair = got into=20 it hot and heavy about 6 months ago the same coverage jumped to $5,758 = and had=20 added the restriction of paying for a factory inspection. =


Now the=20 new restrictions from Lancair (listed in their e-mail today) include = if: =20 


1) building your kit with us or if building at home, having a =
Lancair approved inspector look over your work;  =

 
2)  using only Lancair approved and/or =
certified parts in the construction of your kit (no auto engines, no =
radically modified aircraft engines, etc.);  =

 
3) Having a Lancair approved ABDAR inspect and =
issue an airworthiness certificate (the reason for which is that we =
believe an individual who has extensive Lancair experience will be =
better able to detect deficiencies in the builder's work);  =

 
4) Attending our training program provided by =
Pete Zaccagnino; 
 
5) Having the first condition inspection =
performed by Lancair or one of its approved =
builders.


I had already planned to continue my = training with=20 Pete for the 10+ hours needed to learn the plane, so that is for me a=20 non-issue.  But where is Lancair's list of approved initial = inspectors,=20 of approved DARs, of approved builders, and of approved = parts?  =20 I've been looking and I have only a few months left to get them lined=20 up.  What if I or other builders have constructed their planes = using=20 parts not approved by Lancair? (Perhaps if you bought it from Spruce, = it ain't=20 approved?)   Might not be a major issue at the end but it sure is = a=20 concern now. 


My question is - if Lancair has = negotiated a=20 better program with AIG, how much will I save by abiding by the new=20 restrictions?  So far it looks like I'll be paying more. =20


Robert M. Simon,  ES-P N301ES




VTAILJEFF@aol.com = wrote:

If I get=20 recurrent training from an approved instructor and a one time = inspection of my=20 aircraft from Lancair then my premium is $6,086 for=20 $300k hull and $1 mil/ $100k seat. This is less than half of = what=20 Global is charging. They will go higher on hull if I substantiate it = with an=20 equipment list. AIG is the underwriter. I just got a quote for hull = &=20 liability insurance on my IVP. Falcon quoted $13,675 for $400k hull = and $1=20 mil/$100K seat liability. Global is the underwriter. I have been with = them=20 these last few years with similar premiums. =20

<>=20

 

Thanks Joe=20 Bartels and all involved in making this=20 happen.

 

Jeff = = Edwards

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