X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.202] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 625885 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 12:36:22 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.162.202; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so363410nzf for ; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 09:35:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=cdwdjPb7SQLtmhEPRLx0yHsfsOb5yc1+7yxBneGMu20A9gwUYORCs9+kR++sWQSZ7LiIdQHS0Sfrhwq9Tij58/bsFOXrL1adxxRLsAcJG2HAlprCclHsbEQSbG0aks0pLLXfRuPgP/SLkJlyEJixiVS3CaSoH+ayoy+x265lrOs= Received: by 10.36.23.7 with SMTP id 7mr1391630nzw; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 09:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.9.4 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 09:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1c23473f0508050935c640635@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 09:35:36 -0700 From: David Leonard Reply-To: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Back from Osh/ Dave & Buly repair notes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6617_20168666.1123259736761" References: ------=_Part_6617_20168666.1123259736761 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 8/5/05, Ernest Christley wrote:=20 >=20 > John Slade wrote: >=20 > > I will want one suitable for two users. My back seater won't go over > > 10,500 without it. > > > > Tracy. > > Glad you survived that one. We'd miss you for all sorts of reasons :) > > Take a look at http://www.aeromedix.com > > I got their 2 place system for around $400 complete with a full 640 ox > > bottle. It's gone up a bit since. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, > > but the quality and service seem good. > > Regards, > > John > > >=20 > I've bookmarked this page. Very interesting stuff. I'm basically > healthy, and don't plan on much FL flying. But I think one of their > miniature, $289 systems would be useful for the type of situation Tracy > found himself in. If I had that and the Nonin Flightstat, it would > minimize the weight I carry around but still maximize safety. $600 for > a complete oxygen system isn't all that bad. >=20 > David, this is probably a good question for you. Would it be necessary > to carry one of the oxygen monitors all the time, or would it be enough > for someone to wear one for a few flights to characterize how their body > reacts and then just use oxygen in those conditions? In other words, > can a person expect to react the same everytime, or is it unpredictable? >=20 > Difficult question. In general over the short term you will react pretty= =20 much the same as long as nothing else changes. Also, it is not so much your= =20 O2 saturation that matters as your ability to tolerate lower saturations.= =20 For example, some mountain climbers can function in strenuous environments= =20 with SpO2 in the low 30's!!! Others will begin to notice significant effect= s=20 in the low 90's. Some people live in the low 80's at sea level.=20 With age, in general, tolerance declines while the amount your saturation= =20 drops increases. Many things affect your tolerance such as smoking or other= =20 carbon monoxide exposure, lung disease, dehydration, anemia, cerebral=20 vascular disease, heart disease, change in activity level or even a hang=20 over. So really, the SpO2 monitor tells you very little. It will drop more or=20 less predictably with altitude, but there is no way to say what number is a= =20 safe decline. As expected, the FAA regulations are set for a reasonable lowest common=20 denominator. That means that a few people will experience significant=20 effects even while following the letter of the law, while most can tolerate= =20 significantly higher altitudes. A few years ago I spent about 10 min at 27,000' in an altitude chamber. I= =20 was somewhat dizzy, but could communicate and do math. My O2 sat was in the= =20 low 70's and dropping. Longer exposure might change things somewhat.=20 Probably couldn't do that now. I notice very little effects at 23k (in a=20 chamber) except for loss of color vision and slight uncoordination - I=20 certainly would have the where-with-all to fly en-route stuff for short=20 periods.=20 What is hard for me to remember is that I am getting older, as I am in=20 denial. Either way, the important thing is to be able to recognize the=20 subtle effects and say "that's enough," above 14.5k or not. If you get the opportunity, a chamber ride is an excellent experience. A= =20 few people, even those young and in great shape, do react very strangely -= =20 and it can vary day to day. Also, having O2 readily available even if not continuously used would be a= n=20 excellent and cost effective safety measure for those fly at altitudes wher= e=20 there is the possibility of an issue. --=20 Dave Leonard Navy Flight Surgeon Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/vp4skydoc/index.html ------=_Part_6617_20168666.1123259736761 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On 8/5/05, E= rnest Christley <echristley@= nc.rr.com> wrote:
John Slade wrote:

> I = will want one suitable for two users.   My back seater won't go o= ver
> 10,500 without it.
>
> Tracy.
> Glad you survived that one. We'd miss you f= or all sorts of reasons :)
> Take a look at http://www.aeromedix.com
> I got their 2 place system= for around $400 complete with a full 640 ox
> bottle. It's gone up a bit since. Haven't had a chance to use it y= et,
> but the quality and service seem good.
> Regards,
>= John
>

I've bookmarked this page.  Very interesting= stuff.  I'm basically
healthy, and don't plan on much FL flying.  But I think one o= f their
miniature, $289 systems would be useful for the type of situatio= n Tracy
found himself in.  If I had that and the Nonin Flights= tat, it would
minimize the weight I carry around but still maximize safety.  $6= 00 for
a complete oxygen system isn't all that bad.

David, this i= s probably a good question for you.  Would it be necessary
to = carry one of the oxygen monitors all the time, or would it be enough
for someone to wear one for a few flights to characterize how their bod= y
reacts and then just use oxygen in those conditions?  In oth= er words,
can a person expect to react the same everytime, or is it unpr= edictable?

Difficult question.  In general over the short term you will reac= t pretty much the same as long as nothing else changes.  Also, it is n= ot so much your O2 saturation that matters as your ability to tolerate lowe= r saturations.  For example, some mountain climbers can function = in strenuous environments with SpO2 in the low 30's!!!  Others will be= gin to notice significant effects in the low 90's.  Some people live i= n the low 80's at sea level. =20
 
With age, in general, tolerance declines while the amount your sa= turation drops increases.  Many things affect your tolerance such as s= moking or other carbon monoxide exposure, lung disease, dehydration, anemia= , cerebral vascular disease, heart disease, change in activity level o= r even a hang over.
 
So really, the SpO2 monitor tells you very little.  It will drop = more or less predictably with altitude, but there is no way to say wha= t number is a safe decline.
 
As expected, the FAA regulations are set for a reasonable lowest commo= n denominator.  That means that a few people will experience sign= ificant effects even while following the letter of the law, while most can = tolerate significantly higher altitudes.
 
A few years ago I spent about 10 min at 27,000' in an altitude chamber= .  I was somewhat dizzy, but could communicate and do math.  My&n= bsp;O2 sat was in the low 70's and dropping.  Longer exposure might ch= ange things somewhat.  Probably couldn't do that now.  I notice v= ery little effects at 23k (in a chamber) except for loss of color vision an= d slight uncoordination - I certainly would have the where-with-all to fly = en-route stuff for short periods. =20
 
What is hard for me to remember is that I am getting older, as I am in= denial.   Either way, the important thing is to be able to recog= nize the subtle effects and say "that's enough,"  above= 14.5k or not.
 
If you get the opportunity, a chamber ride is an excellent experience.=   A few people, even those young and in great shape, do react very str= angely - and it can vary day to day.
 
Also, having O2 readily available even if not continuously used would = be an excellent and cost effective safety measure for those fly at alt= itudes where there is the possibility of an issue.

--
Dave Leonard
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