X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.4.51.88] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 624760 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:32:07 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.4.51.88; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:31:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by BAY107-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 16:31:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.4.51.220] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] lycoming O-320 / Back from Osh Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 12:31:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D8_01C598F0.68506780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 12:31:15 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2005 16:31:23.0119 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3A667F0:01C59911] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01C598F0.68506780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Really baffling set of test results Kevin. I am sort of curious what = the actual fuel flow is at 1500 rpm where the engine will run. It = should be a low number like maybe 3 gph or less. The power to turn a = fixed pitch prop is a *cube* function of rpm, not linear. These tests = were with prop on I assume. Also surprised at the temps still going up at 1500 but that may be = normal for rebuilt Lycs. What was CHT at 1500 before overhaul?=20 Back from Osh (great trip, 7 rotaries there) after an eventful return = flight. Entire state of Georgia was under a big dome of clouds with = MVFR conditions below. I made the decision to go on top which was at = around 12,500 ft when I reached edge of cloud cover at north end of Ga. = Had grand view of weather and could easily navigate around thunderstorms = that had buildups into FL 40. Bad news was that top of cloud cover kept = rising as I flew across Georgia and eventually reached 18,000 ft by the = time I reached the southern edge of cloud cover near Florida border. = Did I mention that I have no Oxygen on board? Had one exciting moment when I encountered one of those very thin = gauzy looking cloud layers at 18,000. Not wanting to break into Class A = airspace I descended through it figuring I would fly in the 200 foot gap = between it and the cloud layer below for the few minutes it would take = to get past it. The canopy (and wing too I suspect) immediately started = accumulating ice. Class A here I come, I'll deal with FAA if I have to. = By the time I spiraled down through closely spaced thunderstorms in = Florida I had spent about 2 hours between 16 and 18 thousand feet. It = was a fairly high stress period. Shady Bend was under a thunderstorm by this time so I diverted to Lake = City and landed. It was hot, I was dehydrated from not drinking enough = water and the 3 G spiral down through the clouds added to the discomfort = level. Nevertheless, I felt OK at touch down but by the time I taxied = to the FBO I felt violently ill. I assumed it was the hypoxia and heat = exhaustion (had that back in Army days) but Laura was concerned that the = symptoms could be heart attack. Went to hospital and blood tests showed = slightly elevated enzyme that indicates possible heart attack. Great. = Now I am obligated to go through the whole drill (cardiac = catheterization) to prove it was not a heart problem if I wanted to = keep my pilots license. Test came out good (cardiac guy said arteries = clean as a whistle and hopes his heart looks that good at 57). The plane was magnificent the whole trip and did anything I asked of it. = Still had respectable rate of climb at 18,500 (who needs a turbo?), = engine never skipped a beat, burned 101 gallons in 17.1 hours of flight = (includes taxi time) so fuel burn averaged about 6 gph. Glad to be = home. Tracy (belatedly ordering Oxygen system)=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: kevin lane=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] further testing - -lycoming O-320 my engine continues to baffle me and everyone else on the airport. I = would send it to a mechanic, but I've spoken with all of them and they = have no ideas either. it continues to look like fuel starvation, but no = gauges support this theory. it runs at 2150rpm, burning 11.5-12.3 gals = per hr, 3 lbs fuel pressure, for about 2 minutes then stumbles(and will = die unless I reduce the throttle to 1500rpm. )the stumbling occurs = when cht's are hitting 375 - 410. continued running at 1500 allows the = cht's to climb, so I have to shut things down. the same behavior = occurred when I flew the plane the first two times (until I realized I = could duplicate the problem on the ground) I have a new carb(ma4spa) = and 4 rebuilt cyls (on which I am attempting to set the rings, = unfortunately) if I run the engine at less than full rich the engine = won't stumble before temps hit 400+ and I have to pull power. I bypassed my fuel filters with no difference. I installed new = filters that have a core of little brass balls stuck together and = seemingly much better flow than the other filter(no angles either, just = straight flow) I cleaned and backflushed the fuel pickups and vents, ran with the gas = caps off(no diff). my fuel flow is not changing(until it sputters back = to 1500rpm), so my idea that the carb bowl was slowly not being refilled = doesn't show up. the same problem existed before I had the cyls rebuilt = and welded, so I doubt that stuck valves/weak springs are to blame. = also, that would show problems from the start, not a few minutes later. everyone wants to blame the electronic ig. switching between mag and = elec. during the first minute shows no diff. switching after it starts = to falter shows no diff. pulling back to 1500rpm after falter shows no = diff. I can't believe I have a spark or timing problem because there = are no times when one works and the other doesn't. my slick mag is = brand new also. I haven't tried new plugs yet, the current ones are = new, although I've heard many stories of bad new plugs (hey, what do you = want for $20?) my 1" dia. cheapy van's fuel pressure meter is now showing 3 lbs. I = removed the pressure regulator. in the past it used to show 8lbs = pressure (hence I installed the regulator)and my carb showed signs of = leakage which is one reason I replaced it. I have no idea why it shows = only 3 lbs now. I tried plumbing the carb directly from a gas can. I = forgot to switch the fuel line off and shot fuel clear out on the wing = when the engine started. I would guess that the mech. fuel pump is = working correctly. the facet elec pump will pump about 1 gallon in 2 = minutes when pumping into a gas can thru the mechanical pump. it makes = no diff. if I run the facet or not. I have bypassed the mech. pump and = run just with the facet, no diff., in fact, when I shut off the facet = the engine still runs until the bowl burns down, maybe 30 sec.? it is hard to believe that both the auto plugs and aero plugs are = simultaneously failing due to heat. I could fly the plane at less than = full rich to see how long it would fly I suppose, but that seems = unnecessarily risky. I've had two "lucky" flights so far. I checked for induction leaks(pressurized and soap solution) and found = nothing. I am out of ideas. this problem is just kicking my butt. = hopefully one of you guys will spark an new idea or theory for me. Kevin Lane Portland, OR e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01C598F0.68506780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Really baffling set of test results Kevin.  I am sort of = curious what=20 the actual fuel flow is at 1500 rpm where the engine will run.  It = should=20 be a low number like maybe 3 gph or less.  The power to turn a = fixed pitch=20 prop is a *cube* function of rpm, not linear.  These tests were = with prop=20 on I assume.
 
Also surprised at the temps still going up at 1500 but that may be = normal=20 for rebuilt Lycs.  What was CHT at 1500 before = overhaul? 
 
Back from Osh (great trip, 7 rotaries there) after an eventful = return=20 flight.  Entire state of Georgia was under a big dome of=20 clouds with MVFR conditions below.  I made the decision = to go on=20 top which was at around 12,500 ft when I reached edge of cloud = cover at=20 north end of Ga.  Had grand view of weather and could = easily navigate=20 around thunderstorms that had buildups into FL 40.  Bad news was=20 that top of cloud cover kept rising as I flew across Georgia=20 and eventually reached 18,000 ft by the time I reached the southern = edge of=20 cloud cover near Florida border.  Did I mention that I have no = Oxygen=20 on board?
 
  Had one exciting moment when I encountered one of those = very=20 thin gauzy looking cloud layers at 18,000.  Not wanting to break = into Class=20 A airspace I descended through it figuring I would fly in the 200 = foot gap=20 between it and the cloud layer below for the few minutes it would take = to get=20 past it. The canopy (and wing too I suspect) immediately = started=20 accumulating ice.  Class A here I come, I'll deal with FAA if = I have=20 to.   By the time I spiraled down through closely spaced=20 thunderstorms in Florida I had spent about 2 hours between 16 and = 18=20 thousand feet.  It was a fairly high stress period.
 
Shady Bend was under a thunderstorm by this time so I = diverted to=20 Lake City and landed.   It was hot, I was dehydrated from not = drinking=20 enough water and the 3 G spiral down through the clouds added to the = discomfort=20 level.  Nevertheless, I felt OK at touch down but by the time I = taxied to=20 the FBO I felt violently ill. I assumed it was the hypoxia and heat = exhaustion (had that back in Army days) but Laura was concerned that the = symptoms could be heart attack.  Went to hospital and blood tests = showed=20 slightly elevated enzyme that indicates possible heart attack. =20 Great.  Now I am obligated to go through the whole drill (cardiac=20 catheterization)  to prove it was not a heart problem if I wanted = to keep=20 my pilots license.  Test came out good (cardiac guy said arteries = clean as=20 a whistle and hopes his heart looks that good at 57).
 
The plane was magnificent the whole trip and did anything I asked = of=20 it.  Still had respectable rate of climb at 18,500 (who needs a = turbo?),=20 engine never skipped a beat, burned 101 gallons in 17.1 hours of flight=20 (includes taxi time) so fuel burn averaged about 6 gph.  Glad to be = home.
 
Tracy  (belatedly ordering Oxygen system)
----- Original Message -----
From: kevin lane
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, = 2005 7:15=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] further = testing -=20 -lycoming O-320

my engine continues to = baffle me and=20 everyone else on the airport.  I would send it to a mechanic, but = I've=20 spoken with all of them and they have no ideas either.  it = continues to=20 look like fuel starvation, but no gauges support this theory.  it = runs at=20 2150rpm, burning 11.5-12.3 gals per hr, 3 lbs fuel pressure, for about = 2=20 minutes then stumbles(and will die unless I reduce the throttle to=20 1500rpm.  )the stumbling  occurs when cht's are hitting 375 = -=20 410.  continued running at 1500 allows the cht's to climb, so I = have to=20 shut things down.  the same behavior occurred when I flew the = plane the=20 first two times (until I realized I could duplicate the problem on the = ground)  I have a new carb(ma4spa) and 4 rebuilt cyls (on which I = am=20 attempting to set the rings, unfortunately)  if I run the engine = at less=20 than full rich the engine won't stumble before temps hit 400+ and I = have to=20 pull power.
I bypassed my fuel filters = with no=20 difference.  I installed new filters that have a core of little = brass=20 balls stuck together and seemingly much better flow than the = other=20 filter(no angles either, just straight flow)
I cleaned and backflushed = the fuel=20 pickups and vents, ran with the gas caps off(no diff).  my fuel = flow is=20 not changing(until it sputters back to 1500rpm), so my idea that the = carb bowl=20 was slowly not being refilled doesn't show up.  the same problem = existed=20 before I had the cyls rebuilt and welded, so I doubt that stuck = valves/weak=20 springs are to blame.  also, that would show problems from = the=20 start, not a few minutes later.
everyone wants to blame the = electronic=20 ig.  switching between mag and elec.  during the first = minute shows=20 no diff.  switching after it starts to falter shows no = diff. =20 pulling back to 1500rpm after falter shows no diff.  I can't = believe=20 I have a spark or timing problem because there are no times when one = works and=20 the other doesn't.  my slick mag is brand new also.  I = haven't tried=20 new plugs yet, the current ones are new, although I've heard many = stories of=20 bad new plugs (hey, what do you want for $20?)
my 1" dia. cheapy van's = fuel pressure=20 meter is now showing 3 lbs.  I removed the pressure = regulator.  in=20 the past it used to show 8lbs pressure (hence I installed the = regulator)and my=20 carb showed signs of leakage which is one reason I replaced it.  = I have=20 no idea why it shows only 3 lbs now.  I tried plumbing the carb = directly=20 from a gas can.  I forgot to switch the fuel line off and shot = fuel clear=20 out on the wing when the engine started.  I would guess that the = mech.=20 fuel pump is working correctly.  the facet elec pump will pump = about 1=20 gallon in 2 minutes when pumping into a gas can thru the mechanical=20 pump.  it makes no diff. if I run the facet or not.  I have = bypassed=20 the mech. pump and run just with the facet, no diff., in fact, when I = shut off=20 the facet the engine still runs until the bowl burns down, maybe 30=20 sec.?
it is hard to believe that = both the=20 auto plugs and aero plugs are simultaneously failing due to = heat.  I=20 could fly the plane at less than full rich to see how long it would = fly I=20 suppose, but that seems unnecessarily risky.  I've had two = "lucky"=20 flights so far.
I checked for induction=20 leaks(pressurized and soap solution) and found = nothing.
    I am out = of=20 ideas.  this problem is just kicking my butt.  hopefully one = of you=20 guys will spark an new idea or theory for me.
Kevin Lane  Portland, OR
e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net
 
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