X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from postcard.rose-hulman.edu ([137.112.8.22] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTPS id 943374 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 13 May 2005 20:47:01 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=137.112.8.22; envelope-from=madsena@rose-hulman.edu Received: from bob (cpe-24-160-204-151.ma.res.rr.com [24.160.204.151]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by postcard.rose-hulman.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j4E0k5O23410 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128 bits) verified NO) for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:46:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200505140046.j4E0k5O23410@postcard.rose-hulman.edu> From: "Alex Madsen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Aluminum side housings- Diamond-like coatings Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 19:45:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C557F4.61A69130" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcVYDMeCviWFPSYUQ5OK3MB/KWwC9wAEEIWA In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C557F4.61A69130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone look at DLC for Diamond-like coatings for aluminum side = plates. I am sure it is expensive but I don not know how it would = compare to other coating particularly silicon nitride flam spraying. =20 http://www.bekaert.com/bac/Products/Diamond-Like%20Coatings.htm http://www.bekaert.com/bac/Products/Diamond-like%20coatings/Automotive%20= Engine%20Parts.htm =20 http://www.bekaert.com/bac/Products/Diamond-like%20coatings/Racing%20Engi= ne%20Parts.htm DYLYN=C2=AE PLUS VALUES THAT CAN BE OBTAINED * Coating thickness varies from 1 to 5 =C2=B5m=20 * Deposition temperature < 180=C2=B0C / 356=C2=B0F Coefficient of friction 0,05 - 0,10=20 Steel-ball-on-disc test (dry): 10N, 0.17 m/s, 25=C2=B0C (77=C2=B0F), 50% RH=20 and 100,000 cycles=20 Hardness (GPa) =20 15 - 25 Nano indentation Adhesion - Lc2 Value (N) > 25 Scratch test: constant load on HSS (M2) substrate Adhesion - HF Value 1 - 2 Rockwell C on HSS (M2) according to VDI 3198 E-modulus (GPa) 150 - 250 Nano indentation =20 =20 =20 =20 http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=3D623 =20 Properties of Diamond-Like Coatings Amorphous (a-C) and hydrogenated amorphous carbon (a-C:H) films have = high hardness, low friction, electrical insulation, chemical inertness, = optical transparency, biological compatibility, ability to absorb = photons selectively, smoothness, and resistance to wear. For a number of = years, these economically and technologically attractive properties have = drawn almost unparalleled interest towards these coatings. Carbon films = with very high hardness, high resistivity, and dielectric optical = properties, are now described as diamond-like carbon or DLC, table 1. Table 1. Properties of diamond and DLC materials.=20 =20 Thin Film Bulk Property CVD Dia. a-C a-C:H Diamond Graphite Crystal Structure Cubic ao=3D3.561=C3=85 Amorphous Mixed sp2 and sp3 bonds Amorphous sp3/sp2 Cubic ao=3D3.567=C3=85 Hexagonal a=3D2.47 Form Faceted crystals Smooth or rough Smooth Faceted crystals =20 Hardness (Hv) 3000-12000 1200-3000 900-3000 7000-10000 =20 Density (g/cm3) 2.8-3.5 1.6-2.2 1.2-2.6 3.51 2.26 Refractive Index - 1.5-3.1 1.6-3.1 2.42 2.15 Electrical Resistivity (=CE=A9/cm) >1013 >1010 106-1014 >1016 0.4 Thermal Conductivity (W/m.K) 1100 - - 2000 3500 Chemical Stability Inert Inert Inert Inert Inert Hydrogen Content (H/C) - - 0.25-1 - - Growth Rate (=C2=B5m/hr) ~1 2 5 1000 (synthetic) - =20 Engine Applications The coatings may well find their biggest application in enhancing = properties of general wear parts. For example, it was hoped that the = coating of cams and cam followers with DLC in Formula 1 motorbike = engines would produce an increase in power of 0.5-1bhp. The resulting = power increase was 8bhp, which in racing terms is enormous. =20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:43 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aluminum side housings =20 =20 > George Lendich wrote: >=20 > >>We were discussing aluminum side and intermediate housings a couple = of > >>weeks ago. A figure of somewhere around 15lbs per housing in weight > >>savings was thrown out. The exact figure isn't as important the = fact > >>that several Delta builders have had to stack approximately that = much > >>weight in the tail to get the proper W&B. > >> > >Ernest, > >Surface treatments are problematic- no real cost effective treatment = as yet. > >Composite( aluminium and steel) housings don't save that much weight, = I > >forget the exact figures but will save about 30 lbs, at best. A hell = of a > >lot of work ( and cost) to get that 30 lbs. > > > > > > >=20 > I tend to agree with you, George, but you have to balance the work > required to remove 30lbs from the engine against the work required to > remove 30lbs from my slim figure*. I won't even consider aluminum = sides > until I do a (semi) final weight and balance. If it comes down to > aluminum housings or more junk-n-da-trunk, the debate will be wide = open > again. >=20 > (The humor will be apparent when you get to the email where Ed tells = me > that I'm a little stout for his RV 8*) =20 Ernest, Don't get me wrong I'm actually working on aluminium housings as we = speak - however the truth of the exercise is fully evident when costs and = weights are real, rather than anticipated. Machining anything is a hugely = expensive part of any development and there's a lot of machining in end housings. =20 Hey I'm on the diet too, but firewall forward weight is my main concern, = for C of G requirements. George ( down under) =20 =20 =20 >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C557F4.61A69130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anyone look at DLC for Diamond-like coatings for aluminum = side plates. I am sure it is expensive but I don not know how it would = compare to other coating particularly silicon nitride flam = spraying.

 

= http://www.bekaert.com/bac/Products/Diamond-Like%20Coatings.htm<= /o:p>

http://www.bekaert.com/bac/Products/Diamond-l= ike%20coatings/Automotive%20Engine%20Parts.htm

 

http://www.bekaert.com/bac/Products/Diamond-like%20coatings/Racin= g%20Engine%20Parts.htm

DYLYN=C2=AE PLUS VALUES THAT CAN BE = OBTAINED

  • Coating = thickness varies from 1 to 5 =C2=B5m
  • Deposition temperature < 180=C2=B0C / = 356=C2=B0F


 Coefficient of friction


0,05 - = 0,10 =


Steel-ball-on-disc test (dry):
10N, 0.17 m/s, 25=C2=B0C (77=C2=B0F), 50% RH
and 100,000 cycles 


 Hardness (GPa)

 
15 - = 25


 Nano indentation


 Adhesion - Lc2 Value (N)


 > = 25


 Scratch test: constant load on HSS (M2) substrate


 Adhesion - HF Value


 1 - = 2


 Rockwell C on HSS (M2) according to VDI 3198


 E-modulus (GPa)


 150 - = 250


 Nano indentation

 

 

 

 

http://www.azom.= com/details.asp?ArticleID=3D623

 

Properties of Diamond-Like Coatings

Amorphous (a-C) and hydrogenated amorphous carbon (a-C:H) films have high hardness, low friction, electrical insulation, chemical inertness, optical = transparency, biological compatibility, ability to absorb photons selectively, = smoothness, and resistance to wear. For a number of years, these economically and technologically attractive properties have drawn almost unparalleled = interest towards these coatings. Carbon films with very high hardness, high = resistivity, and dielectric optical properties, are now described as diamond-like = carbon or DLC, table 1.

Table = 1. Properties of = diamond and DLC materials.

 

Thin = Film

Bulk

Property<= /p>

CVD = Dia.

a-C

a-C:H

=

Diamond

Graphite<= /p>

Crystal = Structure

Cubic
ao=3D3.561=C3=85

Amorphous
Mixed sp2 and sp3 = bonds

Amorphous
= sp3/sp2

Cubic
ao=3D3.567=C3=85

Hexagonal
a=3D2.47

Form

Faceted = crystals

Smooth or = rough

Smooth

Faceted = crystals

 

Hardness = (Hv)

3000-12000

1200-3000=

900-3000<= /p>

7000-10000

 

Density = (g/cm3)

2.8-3.5

1.6-2.2

1.2-2.6

3.51

2.26

Refractive = Index

-

1.5-3.1

1.6-3.1

2.42

2.15

Electrical Resistivity = (=CE=A9/cm)

>1013<= o:p>

>1010<= o:p>

106-1014

>1016<= o:p>

0.4

Thermal Conductivity = (W/m.K)

1100

-

-

2000

3500

Chemical = Stability

Inert

=

Inert

=

Inert

=

Inert

=

Inert

=

Hydrogen Content = (H/C)

-

-

0.25-1

-

-

Growth Rate = (=C2=B5m/hr)

~1

2

5

1000 = (synthetic)

-

 

Engine Applications

The = coatings may well find their biggest application in enhancing properties of general = wear parts. For example, it was hoped that the coating of cams and cam = followers with DLC in Formula 1 motorbike engines would produce an increase in = power of 0.5-1bhp. The resulting power increase was 8bhp, which in racing terms = is enormous.

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:43 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aluminum side housings

 

 

> George Lendich wrote:

> 

> >>We were discussing aluminum side and intermediate = housings a couple of

> >>weeks ago.=C2=A0 = A figure of somewhere around 15lbs per housing in = weight

> >>savings was thrown out.=C2=A0 The exact figure isn't as important the = fact

> >>that several Delta builders have had to stack approximately that much

> >>weight in the tail to get the proper = W&B.

> >>

> >Ernest,

> >Surface treatments are problematic- no real cost = effective treatment as

yet.

> >Composite( aluminium and steel) housings don't save = that much weight, I

> >forget the exact figures but will save about 30 lbs, at = best. A hell of a

> >lot of work ( and cost) to get that 30 = lbs.

> >

> >

> >

> 

> I tend to agree with you, George, but you have to balance = the work

> required to remove 30lbs from the engine against the work = required to

> remove 30lbs from my slim figure*.=C2=A0 I won't even consider aluminum sides

> until I do a (semi) final weight and balance.=C2=A0 If it comes down = to

> aluminum housings or more junk-n-da-trunk, the debate will = be wide open

> again.

> 

> (The humor will be apparent when you get to the email where = Ed tells me

> that I'm a little stout for his RV = 8*)

 

Ernest,

Don't get me wrong I'm actually working on aluminium housings as = we speak -

however the truth of the exercise is fully evident when costs = and weights

are real, rather than anticipated. Machining anything is a = hugely expensive

part of any development and there's a lot of machining in end = housings.

 

Hey I'm on the diet too, but firewall forward weight is my main concern, for

C of G requirements.

George ( down under)

 

 

 

>>=C2=A0 = Homepage:=C2=A0 = http://www.flyrotary.com/

>>=C2=A0 = Archive:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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