Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.103] (HELO ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 818207 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:05:55 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.103; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j2O353Ci025109 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:05:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01c5301e$49d9cd90$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Nap time? NAP TIME (Long story)?Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New to the list, and some questions. Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:05:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C52FF4.5F8FC330" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C52FF4.5F8FC330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageNap time? NAP TIME did you say? Boy,do I ever wish it were. = You ever get to the 90% point and think you are about through - oh, = Yeah, Rusty - never mind, rhetorical question for you {:>). =20 I had planned to go out today to put my new digital Electronic Fuel = Monitoring system in the aircraft and fire up the engine (sans prop) to = see it work. Well, I needed to make one little bitsy cable to interface = the board with the aircraft. First thing after making the cable, I hook = it up to my homemade PWM generator to make certain all the leads = actually do what they are suppose to. Well, it doesn't work any longer. = After hours of checking leads and getting indication of good = connections, I can't understand why my gadget no longer shows fuel flow = (or any other fuel related values) in response to the pulse train. I = check leads, I check the board, I check everything thing. I even hook = up the oscilloscope to the PWM generator to confirm I have a pulse = train. Yep! Everything else is working just fine - except the *&^#^ = does no longer work!! Get to bed at 1 Am problem still unresolved. This morning, I start = fresh, got PWM pulses, Pulses getting to chip, pulses on chip - chip = doesn't do a thing with the pulses. Reload program into chip in case a = cosmic ray had flipped a bit. (I admit getting disparate), no joy. I check the out put of the PWM with scope again, yep! nice pulse train = swinging 1.5 volts peak to peak ........WHAT! it suppose to be swinging = a minimum of 5 volts - no wonder, I have a clamping circuit to bring the = 14 volts injector pulse train in the aircraft down to the CMOS 5 volts = level. Of course, the 1.5 volts never make it through the clamp! = Something strange is wrong with my PWM pulse generator. Hey, I may be old but creative still (at times). I had been reading = about the PIC chip I am using capability to generate a PWM pulse train. = I read up on, simply it seems and the Compiler I have even has a basic = PWM function in its library. So a little bit of programming and sure = enough I can get the chip on my development board to generate a pulse = train at 5.0 volts (close enough). So I hook up a wire to carry the = signal to the chip on my new board. =20 Here I get the signal to the new board and then hook up the cable from = the mother board I use to program the chip on my EFI board and plug it = in. I reload a fresh program and viola - the chip and LCD are working = again. But, the EFI chip is getting power through the programming = cable, so I unplug the programming cable and hook up my power cables = from a separate supply and check with the scope that the pulse are still = to the chip (and the are) .......but, the *&^#*# chip and program won't = function. I try the second board I built same scenario - I am going = bonkers! A couple of hours later ( or more I won't admit how many ), I finally = realized what the problem was! Always before my homemade PWM generator = had been hooked up to the same separate power supply as I am using for = my EFI chip. THAT connection provided the ground return path for the = signal from the EFI chip - but since I had disconnected the = malfunctioning PWM generator there was no longer a signal ground (once I = removed the programming cable) and the chip would refuse to process the = signal!! AAAAHHHGGGG! So there, nuff said. All is working and I am going to bed, test the = thing tomorrow. Nap Time! You young whippersnapper. Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:26 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New to the list, and some questions. planning stages of building a Van's RV-7, and the current powerplant = plan is to use a 6-port Renesis on a Conversion Concepts mount. I want = to get a nice, easygoing 200hp out of the Renesis so I can be at the top = end of the power recommendations for the RV-7 without having to plumb = turbos and intercoolers and to keep it generally as simple as possible. Welcome John. Excellent plan. One, is the oilpan bolt pattern on the Renesis the same as the 13b? No. I think the front cover is all that's different though. =20 Will the Conversion Concepts mount work for the Renesis without = modification, and if not, what mods are necessary? Best to talk to Fred about that. I'm sure he's either got a new = mount, or will have one soon that works for the Renesis. =20 Two, (big newbie question here), where do you actually GET a Renesis? Is there a crate version available, and from whom? Latest price? You can buy one direct from Mazda, but I'd recommend calling Bruce = Turrentine instead. Last I talked to him, he was selling the engines = for $5700, which includes having him personally go through the engine. = If I were starting over, that's probably the way I'd go. =20 (On this list and the Canard Aviation forum, it's been between = $5700-$6200) Has the RX8 been out long enough to make it worthwhile = sourcing one from auto wreckers, or are they being snapped up by speed = shops and racers? I've seen some used engines for sale, but they aren't necessarily a = bargain. Eventually, there will be more deals out there though. Is the Renesis overkill? Can i get 200hp out of a n/a 13b without a lot of exotic modification? (I've been reading the posts on injectors, intake tuning, turbocharging, etc). Truth be told, I don't think the Renesis will really outrun the 13B in = our rpm range. I think Mazda just made a better intake, and turned up = the rpms. There are certainly some improvements in the Renesis, but = it's not light years ahead in performance. It's absolutely possible to = get 200 HP from a 13B at less than 7500 rpm, with nothing more than a = street port, and a decent intake and exhaust. Tracy was doing it, and = I expect to be as well. All that being said, the Renesis is clearly the = future of the rotary, and there's no downside with the exception of a = bit higher price at the moment. I think the Renesis is a slam-dunk = choice for folks starting out now. =20 Cheers, Rusty (must be Ed's nap time) Mazda 13B rotary powered RV-3 (flying) Kolb Slingshot (Mazda single rotor project) Sonerai-IIL (next project in line) ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C52FF4.5F8FC330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Nap time?  NAP TIME did you = say?  Boy,do=20 I ever wish it were.  You ever get to the 90% point and think = you are=20 about through - oh, Yeah, Rusty - never mind, rhetorical question = for you=20 {:>). 
 
I had planned to go out today to put my = new digital=20 Electronic Fuel Monitoring system in the aircraft and fire up the engine = (sans=20 prop) to see it work.  Well, I needed to make one little bitsy = cable to=20 interface the board with the aircraft.  First thing after making = the cable,=20 I hook it up to my homemade PWM generator to make certain all the leads = actually=20 do what they are suppose to.  Well, it doesn't work any = longer. After=20 hours of checking leads and getting indication of good connections, I = can't=20 understand why my gadget no longer shows fuel flow (or any other fuel = related=20 values)  in response to the pulse train.  I check leads, I = check the=20 board, I check everything thing.  I even hook up the oscilloscope = to the=20 PWM generator to confirm I have a pulse train.  Yep!  = Everything=20 else is working just fine - except the *&^#^ does no longer=20 work!!
 
Get to bed at 1 Am problem still = unresolved. =20 This morning, I start fresh, got PWM pulses, Pulses getting to chip, = pulses on=20 chip - chip doesn't do a thing with the pulses. Reload program into chip = in case=20 a cosmic ray had flipped a bit. (I admit getting disparate), no=20 joy.
 
I check the out put of the PWM with = scope again,=20 yep! nice pulse train swinging 1.5 volts peak to peak ........WHAT! it = suppose=20 to be swinging a minimum of 5 volts - no wonder, I have a clamping = circuit to=20 bring the 14 volts injector pulse train in the aircraft down to the CMOS = 5 volts=20 level.  Of course, the 1.5 volts never make it through the = clamp! =20 Something strange is wrong with my PWM pulse generator.
 
Hey, I may be old but creative still = (at=20 times).  I had been reading about the PIC chip I am using = capability to=20 generate a PWM pulse train.  I read up on, simply it seems and the = Compiler=20 I have even has a basic PWM function in its library.  So a little = bit of=20 programming and sure enough I can get the chip on my development board = to=20 generate a pulse train at 5.0 volts (close enough).  So I hook up a = wire to=20 carry the signal to the chip on my new board. 
 
Here I get the signal to the new board = and=20 then hook up the cable from the mother board I use to program the = chip on=20 my EFI board and plug it in. I reload a fresh program and viola - the = chip and=20 LCD are working again.  But, the EFI chip is getting power through = the=20 programming cable, so I unplug the programming cable and hook up my = power cables=20 from a separate supply and check with the scope that the pulse are still = to the=20 chip (and the are) .......but, the *&^#*# chip and program won't=20 function.  I try the second board I built same scenario - I am = going=20 bonkers!
 
A couple of hours later ( or more I = won't admit how=20 many ), I finally realized what the problem was!   Always = before=20 my homemade PWM generator had been hooked up to the same separate power = supply=20 as I am using for my EFI chip.  THAT connection provided the ground = return=20 path for the signal from the EFI chip - but since I had disconnected the = malfunctioning PWM generator there was no longer a signal ground = (once I=20 removed the programming cable) and the chip would refuse to process the = signal!!=20 AAAAHHHGGGG!
 
So there, nuff said.  All is = working and I am=20 going to bed, test the thing tomorrow.
 
Nap Time!  You young=20 whippersnapper.
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 = 9:26=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New to = the list,=20 and some questions.

planning stages of building a Van's RV-7, and the = current=20 powerplant plan is to use a 6-port Renesis on a Conversion Concepts=20 mount.  I want to get a nice, easygoing 200hp out of the Renesis = so I can=20 be at the top end of the power recommendations for the RV-7 without = having to=20 plumb turbos and intercoolers and to keep it generally as simple as=20 possible.

Welcome John. =20 Excellent plan.

One, is the oilpan bolt pattern on the Renesis the same as
the = 13b?

No.  I think the = front cover is=20 all that's different though. 

Will the Conversion Concepts mount work for the Renesis without=20 modification, and if not, what mods are necessary?

Best to talk to Fred = about=20 that.  I'm sure he's either got a new mount, or will have one = soon that=20 works for the Renesis. 

Two, (big newbie question = here),=20 where do you actually GET
a Renesis?  Is there a crate version = available, and from
whom?  Latest price?

You can buy one direct = from Mazda,=20 but I'd recommend calling Bruce Turrentine instead.  Last I = talked to=20 him, he was selling the engines for $5700, which includes having him=20 personally go through the engine.  If I were starting over, = that's=20 probably the way I'd go.  

(On this list and the Canard Aviation forum, it's been between = $5700-$6200)=20 Has the RX8 been out long enough to make it worthwhile sourcing one = from auto=20 wreckers, or are they being snapped up by speed shops and racers?

I've seen some used = engines for sale,=20 but they aren't necessarily a bargain.  Eventually, there will be = more=20 deals out there though.

Is the Renesis overkill?  = Can i get=20 200hp out of a n/a
13b without a lot of exotic modification? (I've=20 been
reading the posts on injectors, intake = tuning,
turbocharging,=20 etc).

Truth be told, I don't = think the=20 Renesis will really outrun the 13B in our rpm range.  I think = Mazda just=20 made a better intake, and turned up the rpms.  There are = certainly some=20 improvements in the Renesis, but it's not light years ahead in=20 performance.   It's absolutely possible to get 200 HP from a = 13B at=20 less than 7500 rpm, with nothing more than a street port, and a decent = intake=20 and exhaust.   Tracy was doing it, and I expect to be as=20 well.  All that being said, the Renesis is clearly the = future of the=20 rotary, and there's no downside with the exception of a bit = higher price=20 at the moment.  I think the Renesis is a slam-dunk choice for = folks=20 starting out now. 

Cheers,
Rusty (must be Ed's nap = time)
Mazda 13B rotary powered RV-3=20 (flying)
Kolb Slingshot (Mazda single = rotor=20 project)
Sonerai-IIL (next project in=20 = line)
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