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From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-811719@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] formation takeoffs [was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Electric water pump
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:44:36 -0500
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Thanks, David, I always appreciate the wisdom of those who know what they
are doing.  Experience is also a fine teacher - providing you live to
benefit from it, fortunately thus far I have.  I do try not to make the same
mistake twice and so far have avoided a similar incident.  The preceding
aircraft is either on the down wind side or I wait.

Ed

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 3:35 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] formation takeoffs [was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Electric
water pump


> This is scary!  I flew fighters for 4905 hours.  Formation takeoff and
> landings were "the norm".  We briefed and executed every one to avoid such
> scary events.
>     -  Wingman always on upwind side, with maybe 10 feet of lateral
spacing
> between adjacent wingtips during the takeoff roll and liftoff.  After gear
> up, then we'd slide in closer before going into clouds.
>     -  If flight of four (2 elements taking off in formation), a minimum
of
> 10 seconds between brake release of 1st element and 2nd.  15 seconds was
> even better.
>     -  Wingman - keep up nearer to line abreast, not tending to lag back,
> and never get in close so your wingtip is behind leader's - keep a couple
of
> feet lateral spacing between tips.
>     -  If taking off single ship, 10 second spacing, minimun.  If wind is
> "right down the runway" and NOT going to blow wing wash off to side of
> runway, use 20 seconds and stay on your side of the runway - don't slip
> directly or nearly directly behind the leader!  You know why!!  You've
been
> there and survived.  "There but for the grace of God go I!"
>
> David Carter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:09 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Electric water pump
>
>
> At SERFI Flyin 2003, I took off behind Finn and immediately after lift off
> with perhaps 15-20 ft altitude (or less)  the aircraft roll violently up
> (45-60deg) with the right wing - and yawed approx 15-20deg to the left -
> subconscious reaction was stick/rudder full right - no immediate response,
> had time to think "control problem" when the aircraft reversed and rolled
up
> its left wing.  Scared a couple years off my fast receding youth.  Later
> decided it was Finn's prop wash and now make certain that the aircraft in
> front of me takes off on the down wind side of the runway or I simply wait
> until he has lifted off and cleared the end of the runway.
>
> That small RV3 generated enough prop wake to roll my rather heavy RV-6
> around like a toy.  Not nice close to the ground and slow on airspeed.
>
> Ed A
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: kenpowell@comcast.net
>   To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>   Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:19 PM
>   Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Electric water pump
>
>
>   I was there too.  Made a REAL BELIEVER out of me.  Small airplanes do
have
> wake turbulence;  Probably off the prop wake IMHO;  others seem to think
> wing tip vortices.  For those who weren't there:  at Tracy'sin 2002 (I
> think), Finn started his takeoff run soon after ED had lifted off; as he
> (Finn) 'rotated' the aircraft rolled left (hard) and the left wingtip
> lightly brushed the ground.  Scared me silly; Finn had no idea how close
he
> came to ???????.
>
>   Ken Powell
>   Bryant, Arkansas
>   501-847-4721
>
>     -------------- Original message --------------
>
>     > Charlie England wrote:
>     >
>     > > Finn Lassen wrote:
>     > >
>     > >> Obviously you've never flown right behind Tracy :)
>     > >>
>     > >> Finn (I guess only Ed will appreciate this one)
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > Wanna bet? I saw the grass stains on your wingtip. I also saw you
> get
>     > > 'em.
>     > >
>     > > Charlie
>     >
>     > Well, can't blame Tracy for that one. Sometimes it helps if you're
>     > already awake when you start flying and don't have to wake up during
>     > takeoff.
>     >
>     > Finn
>     >
>     >
>     > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>     > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
>
> >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>