Return-Path: Received: from imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.68] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c2) with ESMTP id 761001 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:33:22 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.68; envelope-from=sqpilot@bellsouth.net Received: from [209.214.45.184] by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20050227013232.GZGQ1995.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[209.214.45.184]> for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:32:32 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [266.5.0]); Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:32:21 -0600 Message-ID: <008c01c51c6c$2d92ac80$0e2dd6d1@paul52u7f5qyav> From: "Paul" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: engine running poorly Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:32:19 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-422123256FA1=======" --=======AVGMAIL-422123256FA1======= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01C51C39.E2D460D0" ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C51C39.E2D460D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the response, Ed. Any chance of you flying up here to hold = on to the plug wire while I crank the engine? Actually, I have a spark = tester that is very simple. You just unplug the wire from the plug, and = insert this 3 inch long device which has a boot that plugs onto the top = of the spark plug, and then the plug wire plugs onto the other end which = has a male "spark plug looking thingy" and it has a light in the center = of it. It has a light in it, and it will flash each time there is a = spark sent to the plug. The engine will still run, as the plug still = gets the electricity to it, this is just an in-line spark tester that I = use on the forklifts we maintain.=20 After checking for spark, etc I think I will go ahead and crank it = back up and run it a bit to see if it was just one rotor flooded. This = is the first time this has happened. It usually starts within two or = three blades. It is not cooperating at this time. Must be female. = Oops...did I just say that? Please disregard. The next step will be looking at/swapping injectors. Fortunately, I = only have two (in the TWM throttlebody), so it doesen't take long to = find which is not functioning. Take care, and thanks for taking the = time to share your experiences and suggestions. Paul Conner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:06 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: engine running poorly Paul, I would suggestion (if you have not already done this) make = certain that the "bad" rotor is getting spark and fuel. Pretty easy on = the spark just hold the plug wire in you hand and crank the engine {:>) = - recall ever having someone do that to you as a kid "helping" fix a = lawn mower. "Here hold this. Yoweee!! Yep! got spark OK". I just = stick a plug in it and observe whether there is a strong spark. I have had the engine "run" on only one rotor - rougher than a cob. = In my cases, it has been a fuel issue. Generally, its happened after I = have "flooded" the engine or have a hard time getting it started on a = cold morning. One rotor will apparently find the right mixture and = start running and eventually (if you can stand the rough running) the = second rotor will kick in. That may not be the case with your = situation, however. Generally 30-45 seconds of running on one rotor = would clear up my "one rotor" operation. The most likely suspect is the injector circuit to your "bad" rotor. = Try removing the injector from the good running rotor (along with its = connector still connected) and install in the bad rotor. If the bad = rotor starts running then you know its your bad rotor's injector/wiring = (most likely). Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:46 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] engine running poorly Well, I finished scraping the foam out of my new cowling ram air = scoop today. I put the cowling on and wanted to run the engine to see if = I was getting sufficient outside air into the throttlebody to get the = kind of rpm increases that I experienced with the top cowling removed = last week. Engine was hard to start, and when it did start, it was = obvious that it was only running on one rotor. I pulled the spark plugs = for inspection, and they looked to be in good, clean condition. I then = removed one injector plug and restarted the engine, and there was no = change. (the injector closest to the water pump). I then replaced that = injector plug and removed the one closest to the PSRU and the engine = would not run at all. Well, now at least I know which rotor is = producing power. Because I ran the engine so hard during the ground = runs last week trying to eliminate the vapor lock problem, (250 degrees = water temp) I'm thinking it might be prudent to just replace the spark = plugs regardless of how good they appear on the surface. Next, I will switch the two injector plugs to find out if it = is the injector or the wiring to the injector that is causing the = problem. (after replacing the spark plugs, of course). Any other hints = or suggestions you guys might come up with will be greatly appreciated. = I did turn the prop thru a couple of times, and the sucking sounds of = the engine seem to indicate that the apex seals are probably not = suspect.=20 Will update my findings soon. Paul Conner -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. 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Thanks for the response, Ed.  Any = chance of=20 you flying up here to hold on to the plug wire while I crank the = engine? =20 Actually, I have a spark tester that is very simple. You just unplug the = wire=20 from the plug, and insert this 3 inch long device which has a boot that = plugs=20 onto the top of the spark plug, and then the plug wire plugs onto the = other end=20 which has a male "spark plug looking thingy" and it has a light in the = center of=20 it. It has a light in it, and it will flash each time there is a spark = sent to=20 the plug. The engine will still run, as the plug still gets the = electricity to=20 it, this is just an in-line spark tester that I use on the forklifts we=20 maintain.
     After checking = for spark,=20 etc I think I will go ahead and crank it back up and run it a bit to see = if it=20 was just one rotor flooded. This is the first time this has happened. It = usually=20 starts within two or three blades. It is not cooperating at this = time.=20  Must be female.  Oops...did I just say that?  Please=20 disregard.
     The next step = will be=20 looking at/swapping injectors. Fortunately, I only have two (in the TWM=20 throttlebody), so it doesen't take long to find which is not = functioning. =20 Take care, and thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and=20 suggestions.  Paul Conner
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Saturday, February 26, = 2005 7:06=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: engine = running=20 poorly

Paul, I would suggestion (if you have = not already=20 done this) make certain that the "bad" rotor is getting spark and = fuel. =20 Pretty easy on the spark just hold the plug wire in you hand and crank = the=20 engine {:>) - recall ever having someone do that to you as a kid = "helping"=20 fix a lawn mower.  "Here hold  this.  Yoweee!!  = Yep! got=20 spark OK".  I just stick a plug in it and observe whether there = is a=20 strong spark.
 
I have had the engine "run" on only = one rotor -=20 rougher than a cob.  In my cases, it has been a fuel issue.  = Generally, its happened after I have "flooded" the engine or have a = hard time=20 getting it started on a cold morning.  One rotor will apparently = find the=20 right mixture and start running and eventually (if you can stand the = rough=20 running) the second rotor will kick in.  That may not be the case = with=20 your situation, however.  Generally 30-45 seconds of running on = one rotor=20 would clear up my "one rotor" operation.
 
The most likely suspect is the = injector circuit=20 to your "bad" rotor.  Try removing the injector from the good = running=20 rotor (along with its connector still connected) and install in the = bad=20 rotor.  If the bad rotor starts running then you know its your = bad=20 rotor's injector/wiring (most likely).
 
 
Ed A
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Paul=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, February 26, = 2005 7:46=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] engine = running=20 poorly

Well, I finished scraping the foam = out of my=20 new cowling ram air scoop today. I put the cowling on and wanted to = run the=20 engine to see if I was getting sufficient outside air into the = throttlebody=20 to get the kind of rpm increases that I experienced with the top = cowling=20 removed last week.  Engine was hard to start, and when it did = start, it=20 was obvious that it was only running on one rotor.  I pulled = the spark=20 plugs for inspection, and they looked to be in good, clean = condition. I then=20 removed one injector plug and restarted the engine, and there was no = change.=20 (the injector closest to the water pump).  I then replaced that = injector plug and removed the one closest to the PSRU and the engine = would=20 not run at all.  Well, now at least I know which rotor is = producing=20 power.  Because I ran the engine so hard during the ground runs = last=20 week trying to eliminate the vapor lock problem, (250 degrees water=20 temp) I'm thinking it might be prudent to just replace the = spark plugs=20 regardless of how good they appear on the surface.
      = Next, I will=20 switch the two injector plugs to find out if it is the injector or = the=20 wiring to the injector that is causing the problem. (after replacing = the=20 spark plugs, of course).  Any other hints or suggestions you = guys might=20 come up with will be greatly appreciated. I did turn the prop thru a = couple=20 of times, and the sucking sounds of the engine seem to indicate that = the=20 apex seals are probably not suspect.
     Will = update my=20 findings soon.   Paul Conner

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release = Date:=20 2/25/2005

>>  Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:  =20 http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release = Date:=20 2/25/2005
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