Return-Path: Received: from imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.69] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c2) with ESMTP id 757198 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:58:36 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.69; envelope-from=sqpilot@bellsouth.net Received: from [209.214.45.24] by imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20050224125749.FXTQ2296.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[209.214.45.24]> for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:57:49 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [266.4.0]); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 06:57:42 -0600 Message-ID: <001d01c51a70$6b393de0$182dd6d1@paul52u7f5qyav> From: "Paul" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 06:57:38 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-421DCF463D23=======" --=======AVGMAIL-421DCF463D23======= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C51A3E.2073C640" ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C51A3E.2073C640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim Sower=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 11:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock CUT If you're almost home and have "Both" selected, and one tank runs = dry, what do you end up with in the fuel line? I believe mostly air. = Late in the trip (traffic pattern?) where trouble shooting time is at a = premium. Use L or R. Not B. Answer: I have a long range canard aircraft with a 70 gallon fuel = capacity. I have NEVER landed with less than 1/4 tanks, (usually have = 1/2 tanks upon landing) and plan to continue this practice. My LongEZ = was also a long distance aircraft with plenty of fuel capacity. NEVER = landed with tanks less than 1/4 full. My canard is capable of 9 or 10 = hours of flight. My bladder isn't. No John Denver scenario for me. = Fuel management has always been high priority for me. I don't like = arriving somewhere and having to shoot another missed approach low on = fuel. Nope. No thanks. and balance fuel consumption automatically, It does NOT balance. One tank nearly always transfers faster than the = other. =20 Answer: My LongEZ was very similar, Main strake tanks, fuel selector = L R and Both. I used Both 90 % of the time. I have been using Both on = this canard as well (I only have 9.5 hours), but so far, fuel = consumption HAS been equal. (Or at least no difference that I can = visually measure). CUT ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 1:12 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock Paul, one last thought on the vapor lock thing. Very glad you = have found that it was the problem. There is nothing worse than not = knowing.=20 It is quite possible that changing EITHER of the two variables = (in-line Facet or vent on the header/sump tank) will make the system = work. Just because you remove one and it works does not mean you have = found the root cause. Earlier I used the "strikes" analogy, and we = don't know how many of these it takes to make an "out". From your background I'm sure you know that it is frequently a = combination of things that can cause a failure. Removing one of them = may 'fix' the problem now but add in other variables like fuel vapor = pressure, altitude, etc, and the problem could come back. The goal is = to make the system as tolerant of all factors as possible. Happily, = this frequently means making it simple too! One other thought on simplicity. I have never landed without = power (in my rotary powered plane) but I have come close several times = in the early days. The only thing that prevented it was having a fairly = simple system and knowing it very well. This helped diagnose the = problem and fix or compensate for it before running out of altitude and = ideas. Tracy -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: = 2/22/2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html-----------------------= -------------------------------------------------------No virus found in = this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C51A3E.2073C640 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jim=20 Sower
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, = 2005 11:34=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor = Lock

CUT

If you're almost home and have "Both" = selected, and=20 one tank runs dry, what do you end up with in the fuel line?  I = believe=20 mostly air.  Late in the trip (traffic pattern?) where trouble = shooting=20 time is at a premium.  Use L or R.  Not = B.
Answer: I have a long range canard = aircraft=20 with a 70 gallon fuel capacity. I have NEVER landed with less than = 1/4=20 tanks, (usually have 1/2 tanks upon landing) and plan to continue = this=20 practice. My LongEZ was also a long distance aircraft with plenty of = fuel=20 capacity. NEVER landed with tanks less than 1/4 full. My canard = is=20 capable of 9 or 10 hours of flight. My bladder isn't.  No = John=20 Denver scenario for me.  Fuel management has always been high = priority=20 for me. I don't like arriving somewhere and having to shoot another = missed=20 approach low on fuel. Nope. No thanks.
and balance fuel consumption=20 automatically,
It does NOT balance.  One tank nearly = always=20 transfers faster than the other.
 
Answer:  My LongEZ was very similar, Main strake tanks, = fuel=20 selector L R and Both. I used Both 90 % of the time.  I have been = using=20 Both on this canard as well (I only have 9.5 hours), but so far, fuel=20 consumption HAS been equal. (Or at least no difference that I can = visually=20 measure).
CUT
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy = Crook=20 To:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 Sent:=20 Wednesday, February 23, 2005 1:12 PM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock

Paul, one last thought on the vapor lock thing.  = Very glad=20 you have found that it was the problem.  There is nothing = worse than=20 not knowing. 
 
It is quite possible that changing EITHER of the two = variables=20 (in-line Facet or vent on the header/sump tank) will make the = system=20 work.  Just because you remove one and it works = does not=20 mean you have found the root cause.  Earlier I used the = "strikes"=20 analogy, and we don't know how many of these it takes to make an=20 "out".
 
  From your background I'm sure you know that it is = frequently a=20 combination of things that can cause a failure.  Removing one = of them=20 may 'fix' the problem now but add in other variables like fuel = vapor=20 pressure, altitude, etc, and the problem could come=20 back.  The goal is to make the system as tolerant = of all=20 factors as possible.  Happily, this frequently means making = it simple=20 too!
 
One other thought on simplicity.  I have never landed = without=20 power (in my rotary powered plane) but I have come close several = times in=20 the early days.  The only thing that prevented it was having = a fairly=20 simple system and knowing it very well.  This helped diagnose = the=20 problem and fix or compensate for it before running out of = altitude and=20 ideas.
 
Tracy

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - = Release Date:=20 2/22/2005

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