Return-Path: Received: from email2k3.itlnet.net ([64.19.112.12] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 744753 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:56:01 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.19.112.12; envelope-from=jwvoto@itlnet.net Received: from rav.itlnet.net (unverified [192.168.10.149]) by itlnet.net (Rockliffe SMTPRA 6.1.17) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:55:14 -0600 Received: from JWVOTO (unverified [64.19.116.152]) by itlnet.net (Rockliffe SMTPRA 6.1.17) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:55:13 -0600 Message-ID: <015101c515f4$36ef8ec0$3a721340@JWVOTO> From: "Wendell Voto" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:46:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0122_01C515C0.4C757F40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0122_01C515C0.4C757F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I find it interesting that you get water in the sump on a Velocity. A = previous owner of one told me that since the tanks are = composite/sandwich structure that water does not condense in the tanks = and never got any moisture in the fuel. Where are you getting fuel? = Could it have water in it? (they put water in everything now days to = "enhance it" or make you pay $4 a pound for it). Wendell Fine, but what kind of filters are you using and where are they in the = system? Gascolator is NOT a suitable substitute for a filter. I have a "flat bottomed" sump on my Velocity, and water DOES = accumulate in it. My fuel line to the pumps is cheated up off the = bottom of the tank half an inch and there's a test drain in the bottom = of the sump to check for water. One of these days I'm going to make a = little "blister" in the bottom of the sump where water will accumulate = so I can get it ALL out without removing the sump and shaking it for = twenty minutes. It all counts, and some of it counts against us ... Jim S. Paul wrote: Hi, Wendell....I use the gascolator for a couple of reasons. I = cannot check my aluminum sump tank. It is sealed. Since the EFI pumps = are located lower than the sump tank, it would be more logical to check = for water at the lowest point in the fuel system. The fuel goes from = the sump tank to the gascolator, which is the lowest point in the fuel = system. I like the gascolator because it has a screen to catch debris = that might have found it's way to the EFI pumps, and the gascolator has = a fuel drain on the bottom of it so that I can check for water at the = lowest point in the system. I don't think the sump would catch the = water, as the outlet from the sump is on the bottom of the sump, and = water should go right on through the sump tank to the gascolator and EFI = pumps, which are the lowest point in the fuel system. I thought this was = the best way to design a gravity fed fuel system....everything downhill = and a fuel drain at the lowest point. Please correct me if I am in = error. Paul looking for a Cessna Conner=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wendell Voto=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:59 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock Paul, Why use a gasolator if you have a sump tank with the outlet a = couple inches off the bottom of the sump? Won't the sump tank catch the = water and a strainer stop the big stuff. The sump is checked before each = flight and a gasolator isn't. Go straight to the FP then thru a fuel = filter and then the fuel rail. Eliminates the restriction, weight and = connections to leak. I am beginning to lean towards in-tank pumps with = built in strainer since all this has come to light. Wendell Hi, Kelly....the efi pumps are the last item before the fuel = rail and fuel pressure regulator. Here is the basic system... The fuel = in the main tanks goes downhill to the fuel selector. Fuel then goes = downhill again through the Facet pump into the top of the sump tank. = Fuel then comes out of the bottom of the sump tank through the = gascolator into the EFI pump(s), then to the fuel rail with fuel = pressure regulator attached, then that returned fuel goes back into the = top of the sump tank. That is the complete system. Take care. Paul = Conner -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: = 2/14/2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- =20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0122_01C515C0.4C757F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I find it interesting that you get water in = the sump on=20 a Velocity. A previous owner of one told me that since the tanks are=20 composite/sandwich structure that water does not condense in the tanks = and never=20 got any moisture in the fuel.  Where are you getting fuel? Could it = have=20 water in it? (they put water in everything now days to "enhance it" or = make you=20 pay $4 a pound for it).
Wendell

Fine, but what kind of filters are you using and where = are they=20 in the system?  Gascolator is NOT a suitable substitute for a=20 filter.
I have a "flat bottomed" sump on my Velocity, and water = DOES=20 accumulate in it.  My fuel line to the pumps is cheated up off = the bottom=20 of the tank half an inch and there's a test drain in the bottom of the = sump to=20 check for water.  One of these days I'm going to make a little = "blister"=20 in the bottom of the sump where water will accumulate so I can get it = ALL out=20 without removing the sump and shaking it for twenty minutes.
It all = counts,=20 and some of it counts against us ... Jim S.

Paul = wrote:
Hi, Wendell....I use the gascolator = for a=20 couple of reasons. I cannot check my aluminum sump tank.  It is = sealed. Since the EFI pumps are located lower than the = sump tank,=20 it would be more logical to check for water at the lowest point = in the=20 fuel system.  The fuel goes from the sump tank to the = gascolator, which=20 is the lowest point in the fuel system. I like the gascolator = because=20 it has a screen to catch debris that might have found it's way to = the EFI=20 pumps, and the gascolator has a fuel drain on the bottom of = it so that=20 I can check for water at the lowest point in the system.  I = don't think=20 the sump would catch the water, as the outlet from the sump is = on the=20 bottom of the sump, and water should go right on through the sump = tank to=20 the gascolator and EFI pumps, which are the lowest point in the = fuel=20 system. I thought this was the best way to design a gravity fed fuel = system....everything downhill and a fuel drain at the lowest = point. =20 Please correct me if I am in error.  Paul looking for = a=20 Cessna Conner 
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 Wendell=20 Voto To:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 Sent:=20 Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:59 AM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock

Paul,
Why use a gasolator if you have a sump tank with the outlet a = couple=20 inches off the bottom of the sump? Won't the sump tank catch the = water and=20 a strainer stop the big stuff. The sump is checked before each = flight and=20 a gasolator isn't. Go straight to the FP then thru a fuel filter = and then=20 the fuel rail. Eliminates the restriction, weight and = connections to=20 leak. I am beginning to lean towards in-tank pumps with built in=20 strainer since all this has come to light.
Wendell
Hi, Kelly....the efi pumps are = the last=20 item before the fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator. Here is = the basic=20 system...  The fuel in the main tanks goes downhill to the = fuel=20 selector. Fuel then goes downhill again through the Facet pump = into the=20 top of the sump tank. Fuel then comes out of the bottom of the = sump tank=20 through the gascolator into the EFI pump(s), then to the fuel = rail with=20 fuel pressure regulator attached, then that returned fuel goes = back into=20 the top of the sump tank.  That is the complete system. = Take care.=20 Paul Conner
   

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