Return-Path: Received: from corpprd-pxy2.canfor.ca ([198.162.160.3] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 744672 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:13:07 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=198.162.160.3; envelope-from=Steve.Bartrim@canfor.com Received: from canformail1.canfor.ca (canformail1.canfor.ca [199.60.193.29]) by corpprd-pxy2.canfor.ca (Build 103 8.9.3p2/NT-8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06479 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:12:20 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C515ED.C4E831E8" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Returnless Fuel System - Fuel Cooler Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:12:20 -0800 Message-ID: <091A2D42FAF91A41B84750D269FC97E72B3112@canformail1.canfor.ca> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Returnless Fuel System - Fuel Cooler Thread-Index: AcUUe7kCqWIjO89NRQO661gZfAFe2QBXVDIA From: "Bartrim, Todd" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C515ED.C4E831E8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob; Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I've been tied up these last few days dealing with lawyers as we are finalizing a land purchase, along with a few other personal commitments (hockey, kids swimming lessons, etc...). This thread seems to have run it's course already but I'll add in what I can. First OAT. While it does get extremely cold here by most of your standards, winter doesn't last forever and we do get some pretty hot summers occasionally seeing temps as high as mid 30'sC. I realize this still falls short of some of your temps. I don't always log OAT on every flight but some of my test flights I did log this, however I'm at work and that info isn't. I do recall at least one of those flights last summer was at 31C. Unfortunately I painted my wing leading edges dark blue, so on a sunny day my fuel temps will often be close to 40C, before I even get started. I've seen them get as high as 45C during taxi and run-up, with no problems. As soon as I get airborne with flow through the cooler, fuel temps immediately begin to drop. The cooler you've found looks great. I'd have bought that if I'd found it before, however I'm satisfied with the one I made. This nonsense that it won't work is very subjective. I've proven that it does work for me, however this is really no different than the issue with header/sump tanks. Ed is flying quite happily and successfully with his, while I was never satisfied with mine. This is probably due to the tendency of builders to not exactly duplicate a successful system due to differences in airframe configuration or required mission. Tracy on the other hand is quite satisfied with his arrangement and apparently it has been copied by several others who are also quite happy with it. I know I wouldn't be satisfied with that arrangement, but that is why I like the experimental category, as we are free to build and experiment as we desire. If you want to go with this system then go for it, but beware that variations in your airframe configuration and flight profile could have varying effects. No guarantees from me :-) If you do have an existing 1/4" return line, I would expect that it should suffice as long as you still have an additional vent line from the tanks and are not just "T" into the tank vent line to return. I should point out that while it has been mentioned that since the outlet of the pumps is often less than the ID of the fuel line this is your limiting factor in flow. This isn't really the case. A small restriction such as this creates a pressure drop through the "vena contracta", but much of this pressure is recovered downstream. If anyone actually cares about this I can pass along the formula for calculation of the permanent pressure drop through an orifice. This means that a 1/4" line with a 3/16" restriction at some point will not have the same lower flow as a 3/16" line, but will still be slightly less than a 1/4" line with no restriction. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C515ED.C4E831E8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [FlyRotary] Returnless Fuel System - Fuel Cooler

Hi = Bob;

    = Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I've been tied up these last = few days dealing with lawyers as we are finalizing a land purchase, = along with a few other personal commitments (hockey, kids swimming = lessons, etc...). This thread seems to have run it's course already but = I'll add in what I can.

    = First OAT. While it does get extremely cold here by most of your = standards, winter doesn't last forever and we do get some pretty hot = summers occasionally seeing temps as high as mid 30'sC. I realize this = still falls short of some of your temps. I don't always log OAT on every = flight but some of my test flights I did log this, however I'm at work = and that info isn't. I do recall at least one of those flights last = summer was at 31C. Unfortunately I painted my wing leading edges dark = blue, so on a sunny day my fuel temps will often be close to 40C, before = I even get started. I've seen them get as high as 45C during taxi and = run-up, with no problems. As soon as I get airborne with flow through = the cooler, fuel temps immediately begin to drop.

        The cooler you've found looks great. I'd have = bought that if I'd found it before, however I'm satisfied with the one I = made.

        This nonsense that it won't work is very = subjective. I've proven that it does work for me, however this is really = no different than the issue with header/sump tanks. Ed is flying quite = happily and successfully with his, while I was never satisfied with = mine. This is probably due to the tendency of builders to not exactly = duplicate a successful system due to differences in airframe = configuration or required mission. Tracy on the other hand is quite = satisfied with his arrangement and apparently it has been copied by = several others who are also quite happy with it. I know I wouldn't be = satisfied with that arrangement, but that is why I like the experimental = category, as we are free to build and experiment as we = desire.

        If you want to go with this system then go for = it, but beware that variations in your airframe configuration and flight = profile could have varying effects. No guarantees from me = :-)

        If you do have an existing 1/4" return = line, I would expect that it should suffice as long as you still have an = additional vent line from the tanks and are not just "T" into = the tank vent line to return.

         I should point out that while it has been = mentioned that since the outlet of the pumps is often less than the ID = of the fuel line this is your limiting factor in flow. This isn't really = the case. A small restriction such as this creates a pressure drop = through the "vena contracta", but much of this pressure is = recovered downstream. If anyone actually cares about this I can pass = along the formula for calculation of the permanent pressure drop through = an orifice. This means that a 1/4" line with a 3/16" = restriction at some point will not have the same lower flow as a = 3/16" line, but will still be slightly less than a 1/4" line = with no restriction.

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